Whats going on with the brazing on this Apollo?

[roburrito]

This Apollo frame rolled into Bikes Not Bombs (a bicycle non-profit in Boston) with the headtube cleanly snapped off. The frame is brazed, but the filets are almost non existent and there aren't any lugs. The break was completely clean. I was dubious of the strength of the seat-tube top-tube joint so I gave the tube a small tug and that snapped cleanly off as well. Are there really bikes riding around like this barely holding together? I don't know the background of the frame, was there a time when this was acceptable practice?







I've got a few more pictures if you'd like to see them, but these were the clearest. I can take more on Thursday.

[David Tollefson]

Paint adhesive?

[Jonathan]

At least it was nicely mitered :)

[Eric Estlund]

Brazed with preforms and sweat out. Essentially a "tinned" joint. Not how I would do it, but its been done. Mostly a French thing in my experience.

[steve garro]

Brazed with preforms and sweat out. Essentially a "tinned" joint. Not how I would do it, but its been done. Mostly a French thing in my experience.

Yep.
peugeot too as I remember.
Put some beef on those fillets!
- Garro.

[blasdelf]

At least it was nicely mitered :)

a bunch of top-end production lugged bikes were built with no coping at all

just tubes cut square with the lugs holding everything together

[Jonathan]

a bunch of top-end production lugged bikes were built with no coping at all

just tubes cut square with the lugs holding everything together

I was tongue in cheek. But you are right. I have a couple of 70 paramounts here that vintage istas fetishize over that are crudely constructed in modern terms.

[blasdelf]

I was tongue in cheek. But you are right. I have a couple of 70 paramounts here that vintage istas fetishize over that are crudely constructed in modern terms.

plenty of newer bikes like the RB-1 built that way too

from when lugs were viewed as labor-saving devices

and not the artisanal rocks of sisyphus they became

[devlin]

Apollo is a local Australian brand with a longish history. Initially it was cheap bikes which then eventually had a racing offshoot called Raceline. Recently, 5ish years ago, they ended the Raceline brand and brought it all back under the Apollo umbrella. The racing line of bikes are not to bad and reasonably spec'd for a 'pre-fab' bike company. I am pretty sure one of the NRS teams is racing on Apollo road bikes this year, for what that's worth.

I had always assumed those Apollo cro-moly frames were welded from looking from the outside. Interesting.

[Eric Estlund]

Peugeot called it "direct brazing". Routens did it too, but generally had more of a fillet on "critical" joints.

[Cooper Cycles]

The frames without the miters also tended to crack right through the bottom bracket shell at the seat tube or down tube...

Travis Cooper
cyclescooper.com

[anon.]

The glare from the flash is making it hard to see, but is that bronze or nickel silver holding the bike together?

AFAIK, the peugeots were nickel silver and have proven to be very robust bikes over time.