White flux

[Jonathan]

can you guys tell the difference betwen the white flux's. I've been using harris flux, any reason to switch to gasflux?

[zank]

yes, it's cheaper to buy in bulk.

[Jonathan]

a 5lb pound tub of Harris is $20, can it be cheaper than that?

[zank]

well, I stand corrected I guess. that's a great deal.

[Jonathan]

i hope it doesn't sound like it's about the money, it isn't. I'd pay twice for something it it were better. Thanks though.

[zank]

I've never been able to tell the difference between the two. With good heat control and by keeping the flux from all falling off, both provide great results.

[gltapley]

Personally, I think the Harris flux works better if the fit is really tight, to me the Gasflux brand doesn't flow silver quite as well.

Another difference is that the Harris flux gives off flourides. These are bad because combined with say high air humidity it makes hydroflouric acid. Hydroflouric acid has an affinity for calcium, and it also etches and eats glass. So, I always wear a good respirator with appropriate filters for orgnic acids when using Harris Flux. The Gasflux is supposedly flouride free.

Kind of like with the painting you gotta wear the proper safety equipement.

[Doug Fattic]

I don't know anything about Harris flux but I sure like Gasflux Type U much better then white stuff I get at my local Praxair welding supply store. The local stuff seems to be mostly water that I have to let it evaporate off before using so that some will actually stick to the joint. In other words a pound of G seems to have a lot more active ingredients than the watered down stuff I get locally. I also like to use Gasflux Type G (also a white flux) for doing stainless (it is what they recommended to me for ss) as it has a 100º higher active range.

[steve garro]

i use the silver flux/alloys from here: www.brazing.com & yesterday i flowed it on S&S couplers, Stainless Llewellen dropouts, steel steerer/crown & 4130 ST sleeve all with excellent results. good stuff!

[Tom Kellogg]

We use Harris Stay Silv., a black flux. Once it is active, it is clear anyway, so the color per se is irrelevant. It holds up much longer than most white fluxes for those difficult situations. We don't recommend it for SS as it won't wet very well on stainless.

[Dave Kirk]

For silver brazing I use "Superior 601".

Good stuff.

Dave

[Dazza]

We use Harris Stay Silv., a black flux. Once it is active, it is clear anyway, so the color per se is irrelevant. It holds up much longer than most white fluxes for those difficult situations. We don't recommend it for SS as it won't wet very well on stainless.

Stay Silv is the only flux I use on stainless steel
I find it hangs on and does a super job
but then I have not tried any other brews


Maybe because I am done under and gravity works the other way
or it is the Barossa Valley red wine I mix into the flux that does the trick

[Freddy]

For silver brazing I use "Superior 601".

Good stuff.

Dave

Right, our white flux is a modified version of Doc Baskin's 601, the safest and most active flux out there, we changed to formula RZ2-S1A to allow more user friendly torch issues, most big industry uses some kind of automatic process and hand operators vary a lot.

Dr Baskin has been the single most active proponent of creating flux and rod sytems for us to use and get the most out of it.

Cycle Design USA is the Bicycling industries Distributor foe Superior products and hold formulas just for frame constuction that are made in partnership with Superior.

[Brian Smith]

Right, our white flux is a modified version of Doc Baskin's 601, the safest and most active flux out there, we changed to formula RZ2-S1A to allow more user friendly torch issues, most big industry uses some kind of automatic process and hand operators vary a lot.

Dr Baskin has been the single most active proponent of creating flux and rod sytems for us to use and get the most out of it.

Cycle Design USA is the Bicycling industries Distributor foe Superior products and hold formulas just for frame constuction that are made in partnership with Superior.

Why do I often get the feeling that Freddy knows more about the brazing industry and the products involved than anyone who holds a torch more than twice per year?

I think I'd rather buy silver from Freddy at today's prices than gold from someone else at 6-months-ago prices.

[suhacycles]

Freddy's stuff kicks butt - doesn't burn as easily, lasts longer, doesn't drip off as much and practically melts off with water when you're done! Taste-wise, eh, not so great...

[zank]

I'm diggin' Freddy's System 48 rod and flux.

[Scheisserad61]

Just a reference point and food for thought : years ago when I was doing more silver brazing I ended up mixing some of the Harris white flux with a little of the black flux for when I did stainless steel work.
I thought it worked better than the straight white (lasted longer) or black (more active at a lower temp, and it seemed to stick better). I started using it for everything cept' brass.

I was afraid that the fluxes weren't "compatible" but they were fine. I was occasionally using Henry James st. steel crowns and lugs to reg'l. steel tubes, and 2 Columbus Metax frames.

When I get low on my current stash I'm going to try some of Freddy's stuff.

[anon.]

I've been using the cycle design stainless light flux for everything silver lately and can't say enough good things about it. It's gotten me out of a few pickles, for sure.

[pruckelshaus]

I'm diggin' Freddy's System 48 rod and flux.

Would you know if the system 48 contains cadmium? I'm using 56% safety silver right now and it doesn't flow nearly as well as 45% with CD. I'm tired of having to clean up blobby shorelines.

And perhaps Freddy can chime in? How does the liquidus temp compare to 45% CD and 56% safety?

Thanks

Pete

[zank]

Would you know if the system 48 contains cadmium? I'm using 56% safety silver right now and it doesn't flow nearly as well as 45% with CD. I'm tired of having to clean up blobby shorelines.

And perhaps Freddy can chime in? How does the liquidus temp compare to 45% CD and 56% safety?

Thanks

Pete

Hi Pete,
No, it doesn't contain Cd. It actually creates a little more of a fillet around the shoreline compared to 56, so you have to be a little more careful not to overfill the joint compared to 56.

Can you identify the root cause of your "blobby shorelines"? Are you overfilling or having a hard time getting full penetration? Or something else? Burnt flux closing up the joint? I think with more practice you will get the results you are after, but you need to identify exactly what is causing you the trouble. 56 can provide great results.