REI places "HOLD" on brands owned by gun manufacturer Vista

[guido]

Gun Debate: REI Places 'Hold' On Vista's CamelBak, Other Brands

Vista owns Giro, Bell, and CamelBak.

Something to think about the next time you buy a helmet or accessories...

[j44ke]

I'm thinking.

I am thinking that future purchases will mean more thinking.

But I am thinking that things I own already will not get thrown out. They will get used until useless.

I am also thinking that this creates pressure smaller shops cannot answer easily as this comes late in the order season, and they may not have the same ability to reject/return orders or sacrifice potential sales from an entire sector of goods. Might put your LBS between a rock and a hard place. Demand has gotten them to stock Giro helmets and shoes, the products have sold well, perhaps better than other brands, now suddenly they aren't supposed to sell them after probably their season orders are all completed, etc.

Cabela's is probably not boycotting though.

Still thinking.

[dgaddis]

I'm torn on this.

Yeah, I get it, I do.

But I also think if I only purchased goods from companies (and their owners/management) I agreed with 100%, I wouldn't own anything at all.

Not the mention all the employees at those companies who have zero influence over what the higher-ups do. They're just trying to make living like the rest of us.

[Shoogs]

I'm a firm believer in voting with your wallet, I've done so since I earned my first paycheck. Brands are making it easier to do so & I appreciate that.

[j44ke]

Not buying something is not the same as voting.

[dgaddis]

Not buying something is not the same as voting.

Sure it is, if you buy something else instead.

[Shoogs]

buying a different brand, using a different supplier... someone else gets my money.

[bigbill]

I bet we all own something made of Lycra and the Koch Brothers own Invista. I'll continue to buy what I need for cycling, guns aren't my hobby so I'm good not buying any gun stuff.

[caleb]

There's been a pretty good debate going on the last few days about the concept of "woke capitalism," most recently Ross Douthat's piece in the Times: https://nyti.ms/2F1njqv

The argument that business is better than Washington at responding to political pressure basically boils down to the facts that (1) politicians only need to stand for election every 2-6 years, while businesses need to make money every day, and that (2) politicians are in a first-past-the-post winner-take-all environment where they can write off a good chunk of their constituents, while businesses need/want as many customers as possible.

There's a whole other set of questions about whether we'd actually want a similar degree of responsiveness in politics. The structural insulation from swings in public opinion provided by cyclical elections was not an accident.

[e-RICHIE]

Rather than cry wolf, how about this - who here has reached out to Giro, or Bell, or __________ and is having a dialogue with them, trying to find out what they think, or feel, or what's in store now this this news story has created its own energy flow? Or, is it better just to go on the internet and comment that the dollar you buy a Camelback with is used to create situations that result in school shootings?

I'm involved in several conversations regarding what to do. And in one of them, a colleague asked me if know where my revenue stream comes from. On balance, I don't, and have never asked. But I know that over 45+ years I've made bicycles for people I'd never mix with socially, or vote for. Each paid me to make a bicycle. Who here among us really knows where the money they earn or spend comes from before they get it?

I won't be commenting after this.

[dgaddis]

There's been a pretty good debate going on the last few days about the concept of "woke capitalism," most recently Ross Douthat's piece in the Times: https://nyti.ms/2F1njqv

The argument that business is better than Washington at responding to political pressure basically boils down to the facts that (1) politicians only need to stand for election every 2-6 years, while businesses need to make money every day, and that (2) politicians are in a first-past-the-post winner-take-all environment where they can write off a good chunk of their constituents, while businesses need/want as many customers as possible.

There's a whole other set of questions about whether we'd actually want a similar degree of responsiveness in politics. The structural insulation from swings in public opinion provided by cyclical elections was not an accident.

This whole thing with Delta here in GA is...strange. Georgia Lawmakers Punish Delta Air Lines Over NRA Feud : The Two-Way : NPR

Lt. Governor tweeted:

I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.

I'm pretty middle of the road politically, but I grew up in a very conservative house, most of my family is very conservative, and the conservative part of me is pissed at that quote. Calling a lack of discounts on plane tickets an 'attack' is some entitled, whiny, snowflake BS IMO. That mentality is certainly not how I was raised.

Also, as far as the tax break is concerned, I'm honestly not educated enough on the topic to know if it's a good thing or not. I do know that the ATL airport is a big tax base contributor to one of the school systems my company does a lot of work for - we're working on doing the MEP design for renovations/additions to six (I think) different schools in that county right now. Taxes collected from the airport (not sure if any of the fuel tax is part of that or not) is partially how they are able to do these renovations and whatnot. Those projects are great for a lot of businesses, not just where I work, but contractors, suppliers, etc.

Anyhow...getting back on topic....

[El Chaba]

Whenever one of these tragic incidents occurs and the talk turns to gun control measures, gun sales go through the roof. As a result, I doubt Vista will notice.

[djg714]

Good to know.

[GrantM]

buying a different brand, using a different supplier... someone else gets my money.

And that changes what? I buy a Louis Garneau brand helmet in Canada and the gun issue in the USA disappears?
Sorry, i think voting is a slightly more direct route to change, regardless of how messed up things are in politics.

-g

[guido]

And that changes what? I buy a Louis Garneau brand helmet in Canada and the gun issue in the USA disappears?
Sorry, i think voting is a slightly more direct route to change, regardless of how messed up things are in politics.

-g

No question that voting is the big game change.

But Vista wouldn't own these brands if they didn't bring them profits. Showing them our displeasure through a dropping bottom line gives the menagement something to think about...

[GrantM]

Or, is it better just to go on the internet and comment that the dollar I buy a Camelback with is used to create situations that result in school shootings?

The Camelback brand is one i've struggled with for years. Clearly the best product in the hydration pack category,
and yet they're a defence department supplier of military combat equipment - something they used to market (maybe still do)

Same thing with Oakley, they have dedicated miltiary sales divisions, are part of that ecosystem. I'm not super-comfortable
with that, i'm not really looking to associate my lifestyle and recreation with the military industrial machine,
but a long time ago I concluded this is something structural about the way the economy and markets work,
and it's far too complicated for me to sort it out. Like was posted, i'd buy nothing if I really knew all the context.
I just want to ride my bike, which i think is really all the message I need to send.

-g

[rwsaunders]

If you have an IRA, 401K or invest in an index fund...sorry, chances are that you are investing in the gun and ammo trade. Start with your local politicians and move up through the ranks. If you believe that they are pawns of the NRA and the gun industry and that they aren't taking meaningful action on gun control, you have the right to let them know with your vote and with your voice.

The cynical side of me believes that Dick's changed their gun ownership rules after they found out that the shooter purchased a handgun from them. REI just found out that Camelback, Bell, Blackburn and Giro were owned by Vista Outdoor? That transaction happened two years ago and was broadcast to the world. The practical side of me believes that something is clicking in the heads of some CEO's and that good will come from it, regardless of their motives. Power to the people right on.

You Might Be Giving Gun Companies Money, Even if You Don’t Own a Gun - The New York Times

Vista Outdoor Announces Agreement to Purchase Bell, Giro, C-Preme and Blackburn Brands from BRG

https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/

[joosttx]

Corporations have more souls than politicians

[GrantM]

REI just found out that Camelback, Bell, Blackburn and Giro were owned by Vista Outdoor? That transaction happened two years ago and was broadcast to the world. The practical side of me believes that something is clicking in the heads of some CEO's and that good will come from it, regardless of their motives. Power to the people right on.

You Might Be Giving Gun Companies Money, Even if You Don’t Own a Gun - The New York Times

Vista Outdoor Announces Agreement to Purchase Bell, Giro, C-Preme and Blackburn Brands from BRG

https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/

It was news to me. I've long lost track of all this ownership stuff. There is so much noise about consolidation and changing distribution,
even those in the industry can't keep up. I've never heard anyone express a problem with the relationship between the "outdoor sports"
side of the retail and distribution network that includes stuff like hunting and the bike business.

I'm sure Shimano fishing gear is sold in many, if not a majority of sporting goods shops that also sell guns, ammo, and other shooting sports category products.
Are they next? Are profits from the gun business are being used to pay Shimano invoices? Join enough dots, and it's all connected.

-g

[dgaddis]

If you have an IRA, 401K or invest in an index fund...sorry, chances are that you are investing in the gun and ammo trade. Start with your local politicians and move up through the ranks. If you believe that they are pawns of the NRA and the gun industry and that they aren't taking meaningful action on gun control, you have the right to let them know with your vote and with your voice.

The cynical side of me believes that Dick's changed their gun ownership rules after they found out that the shooter purchased a handgun from them. REI just found out that Camelback, Bell, Blackburn and Giro were owned by Vista Outdoor? That transaction happened two years ago and was broadcast to the world. The practical side of me believes that something is clicking in the heads of some CEO's and that good will come from it, regardless of their motives. Power to the people right on.

You Might Be Giving Gun Companies Money, Even if You Don’t Own a Gun - The New York Times

Vista Outdoor Announces Agreement to Purchase Bell, Giro, C-Preme and Blackburn Brands from BRG

https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/

The cynical side of me thinks the actions of Dicks, REI, etc is nothing more than a PR move. It's a calculated business decision that they think will ultimately net them more income. I also wouldn't be surprised if REI quietly releases the 'hold' in a few weeks when we've all moved on and are talking about something else. Because lets face it, Giro, CambelBak, Blackburn, etc all make some good stuff that people will pay for.