Reification, Gun Bluing, Cold Parkerization, Patina...Anyone else experimenting?

[halekai]

Hey Y'all,

When I first got into this game I discovered Ezra Caldwell of Fastboy Cycles. At the time he was experimenting with gun bluing and I fell in love with the look of the blackened metal alongside the little stainless bits etc. I have tried a couple different products and techniques and I am happy with what I have come up with.

I use Van's Gun Blue. The process that I have landed on is not hard but pretty involved to explain here. (I will if there is any interest but...) Nothing about it is hard. A common concern is that the powdercoat will get undermined with rust. I have frames out there that are 3.5 years old now riding in SF weather and all reports are good so far. My powder guy says that all powdercoat products are not the same. He has been working with a local guy that does "Reification" or Patina work on a variety of metals. They have been working together for 15+ years and have the process down pat. Powder process is a black box for me so I dont know what the differences might be. I do know that he does a prolonged pre-heat process prior to application.

It has gotten to the point where I cant bear the thought of covering over my fillets with pigments...A king if sickness.

Here is my latest frame-set...Screen shot 2013-09-25 at 9.59.39 AM.jpgScreen shot 2013-09-25 at 9.58.49 AM.jpgScreen shot 2013-09-25 at 9.57.59 AM.jpgScreen shot 2013-09-25 at 9.57.43 AM.pngScreen shot 2013-09-25 at 9.57.18 AM.jpg

[Guillaume]

So there's a clear powder coat over the blue, right?

[halekai]

Yes I should have been more specific. In this case there is a hi-gloss clear or what my powder guy calls "Crystal Clear" over the blued frame.

I should mention that I tried to spray a two part epoxy over it when I first started out and that was a blistering lepromatous mess that I had to re-do. I have also just treated the frame with Olive Oil after bluing. I have three bikes here in my stable that are treated this way. It is high maintenence as you have to keep re-applying it every few months or after every rain exposure and the occasional re- bluing of a rusty spot...but they have lasted for over 4 years now in this manner.

[Chauncey Matthews]

Hey, thanks for the post....what timing! I was just debating on a distressed paint vs gun blue finish. Gotta decide tonight.

If you wouldn't mind, i'd like to know your process. I've only tried it once four years ago with Casey-Birchwood Super Blue. I just followed the directions and it worked out fine (for a bike in NM that never sees rain), but I'd love to see what you've done differently.

Ps-cool frame set!

[Will Neide]

I'd be interested in the process as well. I was thumbing through your Flickr pics from the wishbone thread and the "blued" frames really stood out to me. Very nice look.

[halekai]

Guys thank you for the nice words. I just dug through my email and found a detailed description of my process that I sent to another framebuilder. Here it is...
I have used two products...the beechwood casey gives an olive dark green color. My favorite is the Van's gun blue. its possible to get a deep black/blue/gray with it after many coats.

Step one is prep the frame by sanding and getting the brass where you want it. Get the finish polished pretty fine with fine clean emory cloth. no sanding along length of tube only perpendicular to the length of tube as you will see these longitudinal scratches after finishing! Take a clean t-shirt and "slap rag" the frame to remove all the dust and particles. Wear some thick blue gloves because the stuff will get all over your fingers and make them black for weeks. Get an old toothbrush and apply a little to the toothbrush. I use an old water bottle with a hole punched in the cap to squirt it on so I dont waste any. (for one bike the small 2oz. bottle is way more than you will need). Decant the solution into the water bottle a little at a time. You will see that as the solution comes in contact with the brush or atmosphere its reaction gets used up a little. So you do not want to contaminate the solution in the container! When you apply it you will see that the reaction is robust at first and then stalls. The solution has been used up so you have to keep re-applying it to the toothbrush then bike. There does not seem to be a correlation between amount you squirt onto the brush and its overall effectiveness so work on applying it in as little amounts as possible. Work in small areas with the tube horizontal so that drips dont run down the frame. work in the solution with the brush vigorously. After you are done with a tube move on to the next tube around the bike but keep going back and re-wetting the old tubes with new solution a few times during each "coat". continue until you have done it all at least two or three times this way which will amount to one "coat".

I used to wait until it was all dry and polish tubes with dry steel wool 0000. But now I do the polishing with a little solution still in place. You will see that there will be areas that get blotchy. These areas must be lightly resanded using wet auto paper at 800+ grit then re-apply solution. The steel wool can get some of it but not the heavy blotches.

The brass itself can go two ways. You can leave the silvery-grey-pink patina that piles up or get in there and Hi-polish them to a brighter finish. I have done it both ways.

You will probably want to put at least 3 coats on in this manner. Some brands of tubes react differently to the chemical process. Also the absolutley stunning peacock blues that you get at first application will not last more than an hour or so...sad because those colors are mind warpingly beautiful...if only there was a way...(there is but it involves blasting the frame with a clean flame such as propane until the steel gets a rainbow color much like the exhaust pipes of motorcycles)

After it is as dark as you want it and as polished as you want it take a clean rag (remember that new tshirts and cotton has Lanolin oil in the fabric so make sure the cotton rag has seen plenty of washings in the past or you will get the lanolin on the frame and the bluing and or powder will not stick) and dry it all off and go over it one last time with a dry piece of 0000 steel wool. Last step is to slap rag the whole frame to get the dust off.

What I would do is take a sample, gun blue it and bring it to your local guy and ask him to powder coat it using hi-gloss clear. ask him to heat up the tube for a bit over 300*F to burn off any volitiles from the process. This is one of the secrets AJ has told me he does. Then pick it up and do a ding test on the tube.

Another trick I do is to face the BB and HT prior and then press/install the bearings without cutting the finish layer. Just let it compress. This offers a little extra protection against creeping rust later on.

Stainless will not pick up the stain but sometimes there is some blotching so youll have to polish stainless carefull afterward.

Another trick is to let the frame heat up in the sun or with a heat gun. This seems to speed up the rxn a bit especially if it is cold as hell.

Good luck and let me know if that answered your questions.

Hale

[Greensabbath]

Thank you for this info, I love the look Ezra's frame and yours looks beautiful too. I am wondering who your powdercoater is? Thanks!

[Chauncey Matthews]

Thanks for the breakdown. That's pretty much how I did it. I had a Tange prestige tube in the frame that needed a few more coats to match the 4130 tubes. I figured that leaving the blue to dry might help make it darker, but I thought you had to rinse the frame off pretty quickly to neutralize the reaction. Did you intentionally skip that or maybe you didnt have to do that with the Van's?

[halekai]

Greensabbath,

My powdercoater is AJ at West Coast Powder in So. SF, CA. Tell him I sent you and he might cut you a deal?

Chauncey, I never knew you were supposed to rinse it off. After the process and buffing it with wool and then cotton I did not see a need for that. esp. since powder requires a clean frame. For me to get it darker just means more coats and not necessarily longer as I think the reaction is used up pretty quickly.

Post your picture here when you are done!

Hale

[Greensabbath]

I'm less concerned about a deal and more concerned with trying to explain the process to the driver of my current powdercoater when its a challenge for them to not screw up a regular powder job in the first place. Thanks for the tip.

[halekai]

I know what you mean about powder coaters and quality. Some are just not in the same headspace as we are. It is a hand-built piece of rolling art that we slave over for hours and sometimes weeks...not some motorcycle part from China...for Pete's sake!

I would ask your powdercoater to make sure there are no thin spots...to make it thicker rather than thinner. Also to preheat the frame to 300 degrees for 10 minutes to burn off the volitiles and any water that might be in the frame from soaking. If you can provide a broom handle wedged in the seat tube with a hook on it so they dont have to handle the frame at all. The nice thing about a clear is that it is more forgiving than a pigment. Your eyes go past the finish and land on the frame, metalwork, details, bluing etc and a bubble here or there does not detract from the work like it would if it was shiney red.

It was hard for me to hand over my stuff to a powdercoater. Aj has a reputation in this area and handles most of the local builders...Of course Chris is the real craftsman in the shop and he oversees or does most of the actual work.

I dont know but you may just try calling him and asking him...what the prep is and what product he uses for the crystal clear. Chris is the shop foreman and he may answer the phone. Those might be trade secrets though? I am headed there next week. I could ask him and he might tell me if he knew the answers were going to another state ie. not in direct competition with him etc.

I have been searching for a spray on clear that wont blister and is durable. the only thing I have found that holds up is Shellac or Varethane. I read somewhere that Rene Herse and Singer used Shellac as a clear on their bicycles. I dont know if that is true or not. I have used Shellac over bluing for repairs or Shellac over raw steel just brushed on to waterproof the area...and it is pretty tough. I am considering doing a whole frame this way. Shellac is potentially an environmentally sound product...Just melted bug wings. Definately not cruelty free though...Good luck.

Hale

[Greensabbath]

I might actually just switch to using West Coast Powder for my next build since I am in the Bay Area anyway. I chose the people I use now because they give my shop a deal and they pickup/deliver but if there are flaws every time then the 30 bucks off doesn't mean much.

[halekai]

Greensabbath, PM me and we can talk about hooking you up with AJ. I think you will be surprised at his industry discount. I think he enjoys being the go-to guy for bicycles in the Bay area. He discounts further for bulk too. The one time I had him do pigment it turned out a perfect flawless Kawasaki green.

Hale

[Ryan Christbaum]

+1 on West Coast. I had a frame done by AJ at West Coast when I worked in San Mateo, and it was done on time with very nice results. The blue process looks great, but I'm not sure I'm that patient with finishing. Thanks for sharing.