maintenance high on this car?

[SteveP]

Somewhere I saw a detailed breakdown of the cost of an oil change for a Bugatti Veyron.

$21,000 for an oil change.

Thats why I went with the Prius.

[dgaddis]

This article is old, but still interesting ::

Owning a supercar is just as expensive as you think

Service your Carrera GT, or just buy a used Cayman?

Replacing the trick ceramic clutch: $25,000 including labor. A full brake job—$30,000—is a steal by comparison.When the CGT was new, dealers had to buy a special $10,000 table and an $8000 jig to hold the car's engine during service.

[guido]

Prius: $56 for an oil change with Synthetic that lasts 5000 miles...

[Apollo]

Many of those vehicles are not everyday drivers.

They don't get that many miles or wear on them.

One thing though is the high speed tires.

In only a few miles, they don't show much wear, but they become lumpy and noisy and require frequent replacement.

Since they are directional, they can't be rotated side to side without remounting and since they are different sizes front and back, they can't be rotated front to back.

There was a garage that worked on exotic cars near my shop in Italy and they had a sign above the door that had a minimum charge to do any work, and it was quite a bit of money if only a small service was required.

There was a batch of Prius cars that had defective headlight bulbs.

Before they knew they were defective, the dealers were charging $300 to change one bulb, because the front end needed to be taken apart.

Later it was discovered the bulbs had short life because they were defective and Toyota started paying to have them both replaced.

Maybe the newer ones have LED headlights now.

[dgaddis]

Maybe the newer ones have LED headlights now.

I got a Honda Ridgeline pickup a few months ago, certainly not a Ferrari or Bugatti. Mine uses regular halogen bulbs in the headlights, but the higher trim levels use LEDs, and the LEDs are integral to the headlight housing and not replaceable. They're supposed to last the life of the vehicle. I'm pretty suspicious of that...

Anyhow, a replacement LED headlight 'retails' at just over $1,000.

[Apollo]

I got a Honda Ridgeline pickup a few months ago, certainly not a Ferrari or Bugatti. Mine uses regular halogen bulbs in the headlights, but the higher trim levels use LEDs, and the LEDs are integral to the headlight housing and not replaceable. They're supposed to last the life of the vehicle. I'm pretty suspicious of that...

Anyhow, a replacement LED headlight 'retails' at just over $1,000.

It's the same for the Honda CR-V.

The lower trim levels get regular bulbs and only the top trim level gets LED headlights.

The standard CR-V headlights are not rated very well, but the LED ones are.

People say it is $1300 a piece to convert a lower trim to having LED's.

Not all regular headlights get low ratings.

My new Toyota Highlander has halogen bulbs and they have a good rating.

I don't drive at night much anyway.

I learned to not skimp on wipers with the newer long wipers.

They still have the same attachment but have to do a bigger job than the older shorter wipers.

[chrisn]

Not sure if its the same in the US, but in the UK (and all of Europe I think) LED and Zenon lights have to by law have auto levelling and water jet washers built in. That's what makes them such an expensive option on a new car, but not sure that all this needs to be replaced each time with the bulb.

[Apollo]

Not sure if its the same in the US, but in the UK (and all of Europe I think) LED and Zenon lights have to by law have auto levelling and water jet washers built in. That's what makes them such an expensive option on a new car, but not sure that all this needs to be replaced each time with the bulb.

I don't think any of that is required with LED headlights in the US.

There is a limit to how much light they can produce, which is often less than in other countries.


The ones that appear brighter, have the same amount of light, but with sharper or narrower focus.

LED headlights require cooling, usually by fan or heat sink, and that makes them more expensive, and since they last so long, they don't sell many replacements.

[dgaddis]

The headlights are fine on my Ridgeline w/the halogen bulbs. But looking into aftermarket LED lights (there's plenty of plug and play to replace the halogen bulb) I think I'm going to put some HIDs in instead. The LEDs have a whiter lighter, but doesn't look like they actually have any further reach down the road, so they don't actually improve what I could see. My housing has projector lenses already, so the HIDs won't blind oncoming traffic. And the HIDs aren't much more $$ than an LED set up. Don't plan on doing it until later this year tho, when the time changes and I'm driving in the dark every day.

[guido]

There was a batch of Prius cars that had defective headlight bulbs.

Before they knew they were defective, the dealers were charging $300 to change one bulb, because the front end needed to be taken apart.

Later it was discovered the bulbs had short life because they were defective and Toyota started paying to have them both replaced.

Toyota dealers will charge $300 for a Kleenex. Learning to avoid the dealer at all costs is the key to happy Toyota ownership...

The Gen2 and Gen3 Prius' I have owned have a small bulb that is separate from the larger reflector. It takes 10 minutes to replace the $15-50 bulb (depending on type). No need to take the front end apart...

[Apollo]

Toyota dealers will charge $300 for a Kleenex. Learning to avoid the dealer at all costs is the key to happy Toyota ownership...

The Gen2 and Gen3 Prius' I have owned have a small bulb that is separate from the larger reflector. It takes 10 minutes to replace the $15-50 bulb (depending on type). No need to take the front end apart...

I think it is the second generation Prius, 2004-2009, that calls for taking apart the front of the car to replace the headlight bulbs.

There was a rash of defective headlight bulbs in them that caused short life for the bulbs.

I wasn't figured out for a while that the bulbs should last longer.

[Apollo]

The headlights are fine on my Ridgeline w/the halogen bulbs. But looking into aftermarket LED lights (there's plenty of plug and play to replace the halogen bulb) I think I'm going to put some HIDs in instead. The LEDs have a whiter lighter, but doesn't look like they actually have any further reach down the road, so they don't actually improve what I could see. My housing has projector lenses already, so the HIDs won't blind oncoming traffic. And the HIDs aren't much more $$ than an LED set up. Don't plan on doing it until later this year tho, when the time changes and I'm driving in the dark every day.

I'm good with the regular halogen bulbs.

I don't see much advantage in spending money on HID headlights.

Some of those lights limit the light spread or height to narrow the beam of the light, or require special reflectors to work properly.

It was just the CR-V that has some poorly designed halogen headlights.

[zachateseverything]

Many of those vehicles are not everyday drivers.

They don't get that many miles or wear on them.

One thing though is the high speed tires.

In only a few miles, they don't show much wear, but they become lumpy and noisy and require frequent replacement.

Since they are directional, they can't be rotated side to side without remounting and since they are different sizes front and back, they can't be rotated front to back.

There was a garage that worked on exotic cars near my shop in Italy and they had a sign above the door that had a minimum charge to do any work, and it was quite a bit of money if only a small service was required.

There was a batch of Prius cars that had defective headlight bulbs.

Before they knew they were defective, the dealers were charging $300 to change one bulb, because the front end needed to be taken apart.

Later it was discovered the bulbs had short life because they were defective and Toyota started paying to have them both replaced.

Maybe the newer ones have LED headlights now.

it depends on the car/tire. max performance summer tires (ie. Michelin Sport Cup, Goodyear Supercar, etc.) are going to have fairly minimal tread depth to begin with and wear rates are fast. It's uncommon for a true max performance tire to last much more than 10,000 miles. If you're actually using those tires as intended they should be pretty well trashed after a couple track days. There are iterations of the Michelin Sport Cup 2 that are cashed out after a single lap.

What you're describing with the tire becoming lumpy and noisy is what's known as irregular wear. It'll start as individual tread lugs getting a heel-toe pattern. On tires with a low pitch count (number of times the pattern is repeated) that can expand into irregular wear across lugs or what's known as facet wear (tire takes on a gem like appearance). Irregular wear can be tremendously loud.

Tires can also flatspot if your car is left sitting around in a hot environment.

Directional designs are not very common in the industry anymore outside of some snow tires. It's easier to get a tire to work better in the high performance segments if it's asymmetric. A tire design that's asymmetric and directional will double the number of molds you need to go into production and most manufacturers are going to avoid that if they can.

but the $1-2k someone's going to spend to put new rubber on their sportscar or "entry-level" exotic is nothing compared to the tire cost for a Bugatti Veyron. They used a special wheel flange design on that and the Michelin's designed for the car cost about $40k a set. when you start talking about speeds in the high 200's just getting a tire design that won't fly apart is pretty tough/important.

[Saab2000]

Thats why I went with the Prius.

So what you're saying is that while comparison shopping the Prius and the Bugatti Veyron you couldn't separate them until doing a cost analysis of the oil changes. Until this though it was a tight race between the two.

That's totally understandable as they're fundamentally pretty similar. They both provide locomotion, both have windows, both will seat at least two occupants, etc.

[SteveP]

So what you're saying is that while comparison shopping the Prius and the Bugatti Veyron you couldn't separate them until doing a cost analysis of the oil changes. Until this though it was a tight race between the two.

That's totally understandable as they're fundamentally pretty similar. They both provide locomotion, both have windows, both will seat at least two occupants, etc.

it came down to the cost of an oil change... plus I can put 2 bikes in the back of the Prius.

Plus the Bugatti dealer was kind of a dick..
I just wanted to take one for a comparison test ride and he said they don't allow test rides...

[dgaddis]

it came down to the cost of an oil change... plus I can put 2 bikes in the back of the Prius.

Plus the Bugatti dealer was kind of a dick..
I just wanted to take one for a comparison test ride and he said they don't allow test rides...

When I was in highschool a buddy and I decided to go check out the Atlanta Ferrari/Lamborghini/Lotus dealership. We showed up in his '97ish(??) TransAm, walked around and drooled at a bunch of cars, then went home. While we were there we noticed a bunch of dudes in suits, news crews were there, and there was a room inside the dealership where something was happening.

Later we learned that Michael Vick was picking up his new Lamborghini Murcielago Spyder. It was one of the first spyder versions sold in the US. He had just signed his a huge contract w/the Falcons, $10million for 10 years or something, I think it was the highest paid contract ever at the time.

Only time I've been to a car dealership where none of the sales people bothered me at all.

[Saab2000]

When I was in highschool a buddy and I decided to go check out the Atlanta Ferrari/Lamborghini/Lotus dealership. We showed up in his '97ish(??) TransAm, walked around and drooled at a bunch of cars, then went home. While we were there we noticed a bunch of dudes in suits, news crews were there, and there was a room inside the dealership where something was happening.

Later we learned that Michael Vick was picking up his new Lamborghini Murcielago Spyder. It was one of the first spyder versions sold in the US. He had just signed his a huge contract w/the Falcons, $10million for 10 years or something, I think it was the highest paid contract ever at the time.

Only time I've been to a car dealership where none of the sales people bothered me at all.

I was recently in a BMW dealership and when I walked in some kind of manager rushed over from a meeting of salespeople asking, in a kind of hostile manner, was there anything I was looking for. I responded that I was there to look at the BMWs, if that was OK. He said it was and turned away. I was out in about 2 minutes. I tend to dress in a pretty casual manner when I am not working. Think Charlie Sheen in Two and a Half Men - Shorts, untucked shirt and usually some kind of sandals. It was obvious to these folks that I wasn't a potential customer, probably based on my appearance. Too bad for them because as the saying goes, you've got one chance to make a good first impression and my first impression ever in a BMW dealership was awful and I am definitely their target customer. Of all the premium brands the only one which treated me respectfully was Audi. The others were indifferent or in the case of BMW, totally dismissive.

I am also aware, first hand, of a story where a guy was denied a test drive of a Corvette. Went to the next Chevrolet dealer, bought one and went back to the first one to show them the sale they missed out on.

Anyone here work in car sales? Curious about stories of great and less great customers.

[Lionel]

I was recently in a BMW dealership and when I walked in some kind of manager rushed over from a meeting of salespeople asking, in a kind of hostile manner, was there anything I was looking for. I responded that I was there to look at the BMWs, if that was OK. He said it was and turned away. I was out in about 2 minutes. I tend to dress in a pretty casual manner when I am not working. Think Charlie Sheen in Two and a Half Men - Shorts, untucked shirt and usually some kind of sandals. It was obvious to these folks that I wasn't a potential customer, probably based on my appearance. Too bad for them because as the saying goes, you've got one chance to make a good first impression and my first impression ever in a BMW dealership was awful and I am definitely their target customer. Of all the premium brands the only one which treated me respectfully was Audi. The others were indifferent or in the case of BMW, totally dismissive.

I am also aware, first hand, of a story where a guy was denied a test drive of a Corvette. Went to the next Chevrolet dealer, bought one and went back to the first one to show them the sale they missed out on.

Anyone here work in car sales? Curious about stories of great and less great customers.

In Silicon Valley you can show up at any car dealership dressed any which way you want and they are all assuming you can buy anything.

[guido]

I think it is the second generation Prius, 2004-2009, that calls for taking apart the front of the car to replace the headlight bulbs.

There was a rash of defective headlight bulbs in them that caused short life for the bulbs.

I wasn't figured out for a while that the bulbs should last longer.

I replaced both the bulbs on my 2005. No taking it apart required! You are now a member of the Toyota Repair department suckers club!

[Apollo]

I bought a new 1998 Audi A4 in Italy.

That car was in the repair shop more than I drove it.

Then the repair shop burned down with the car.

I was glad to be rid of it.