First steps in brazing: tools, parts etc

[TouringMonkey]

Hi,

Newbie here, so some questions might be dump, hope you will have a patience.

Idea is to learn brazing and I'm looking for equipment for that without breaking a bank... when in the other hand, if it makes sense to buy some better tools for easier work and better result - please point them out, I will consider it.

I read some success stories (mainly on this forum here) brazing with Oxygen+Propane so I'm planing to go that way.

I live in Germany, but I have problem to find torch and other stuff dealer here. May somebody share some links?
In a meantime, I'm looking at this kit https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/...azing-Kit.html as it (at least "Light Duty" torch) has some positive feedback. What do you think about it? Is it all I need for the first run?

I'm pretty sure that I need some kind of adapter too to be able connect this kit to propane tanks that are common in Germany, they have this kind of connection:
gastank.jpg

Now it's up to an Oxygen tank, are there some Germans here who know where I could get one? What are the prices? Thanks

And the last but not least, flux and filler metal - need some help here too, as I don't know any web-shop based in Germany or near by.

My plan is to practice brazing on some steel junk bikes, adding braze-ons on them and trying to connect tubes together. I'm not sure what kind of filler metal would be best for this purpose so an advice is welcome.

That's about it,
Hope it all makes sense,
Thanks in advance

Jim Kapo

[Todd Mosley]

The kit you linked looks like it will thread right in to the internal threads of that propane tank with no adapter necessary. I can't give any opinion on the quality of the kit though.

Cyberweld ships internationally and you could piece together a Smith AW1A propane setup and source the tanks locally. Miller Welders, Welding Supplies, Plasma Cutters, Hobart and more at Cyberweld.com.

[jclay]

The kit you linked looks like it will thread right in to the internal threads of that propane tank with no adapter necessary. I can't give any opinion on the quality of the kit though.

Cyberweld ships internationally and you could piece together a Smith AW1A propane setup and source the tanks locally. Miller Welders, Welding Supplies, Plasma Cutters, Hobart and more at Cyberweld.com.

My recommendations would include getting some oxy/fuel brazing & welding instruction locally (a school or pay a professional tradesman to teach you) before purchasing a torch outfit. After that you'll be able to make better informed decisions as to the fuel and equipment you want to use. I'd also use equipment that is common to Germany. Doubtless appropriate equipment can be found in the EU.

Good luck!

[Doug Fattic]

By the way one of the rules for posting on the framebuilding part of VS is using your real first ad last name. Thanks.

Most online advice for what equipment to buy and materials to use is based on what is available here in the US. However steel framebuilding has become more popular again in Europe and the UK. Ask around and you will find a number of amateur builders in Germany and other nearby counties. I had a student from Berlin this summer that had taken another framebuilding class somewhere in Germany before he took mine. He realized the advantages of coming to the States to take a class from an experienced teacher after getting the basic knowledge. Send me a personal email and I can provide more information so you can get in touch with him.

In the US we tend to avoid packaged oxyacetylene units for framebuilding because what works best for general shop use is not the same as what works best for us. In general smaller and lighter torch handles and hoses are what we prefer. For reasons of cost and safety and to get around local regulations, many starting out will use propane and an oxygen concentrator.

One easy way get the right equipment is to buy the torch handle and propane tips and light hoses here in the US (they can be shipped to Germany by the postal service) and get the regulators, arrestors and heavy hose in Germany. The German stuff you buy at your local welding supply store. You make the change in fittings on one end of your German 6mm hose. The German fitting is cut off and the ¼” (inch) American barbed either size A or B fitting is slide into the hose and held in place with hose clamps. Many of my students from other countries have done this successfully because it is convenient. I have a frame shop in Ukraine and this is what we did there. They local Russian torches were truly awful (although I could use them).

You can buy brass (actually bronze), 56% silver and flux at Ceeway in the UK. Other German builders can give you advice on where they get their supplies.

[Burcak Erbil]

Hello Jim,

I assume you will start with lugs. I found Tim Paterek's videos quite helpful for the beginning.

I highly recommend the Cycle Design fluxes; especially for silver brazing. System48 is the one.

I use Oxy/Propane too. It does not make much difference for lugged brazing, but it's slightly different than acetylene in fillet brazing.

If you do not already know about this;
reset-racing.de

Auf wiedersehen ;)

[bambuko]

...I'm looking at this kit https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/...azing-Kit.html ...

Beware of buying kit like this.
Fine in principle, but...
the glasses included - you will throw them away as soon as you start using them (they are too dark) and will buy something better/more suitable,
the regulators - you might get away with them, but if you search the forum you will find that not all regulators are equal. I ended up replacing mine because the originals were not up to the job.
the torch - mixer threads are unique to this firm on this particular torch and not the same as majority/typical (either US or UK, or continental).

You might follow Doug's advice (excellent as usual), but be prepared for additional tax, postage and handling charges (not to mention weak Euro).
Plus, once you start down this route you will be forever stuck with buying bits from US, not to mention the fact that mixing and matching US and Euro stuff is a minefield od different threads, connectors etc, etc.

You can get microbore hoses here (not only in US):
Gas Hoses - Oxy Fuel Hose - Noz-Alls Ltd

I would source all the components individually rather than buy this kit - otherwise you will end up buying most of it twice (eventually), once you learn...
I would also get a lot of local (Germany) advice, before making my decision.
For example propane bottle connector? is it 21.8 LH DIN? not quite the same as used in UK, so the kit you are considering might be useless (5/8" BSP LH)

[TouringMonkey]

Thanks for replies!

I didn't realize that there is thread inside propane bottle connection, as I was always using the one on the outside to connect cooking stove etc... I should check it out, thanks, Todd.

Well, my budget is very limited that's why I don't consider any framebuilding class/course as they are quite pricey. The same story with equipment from USA + good point about different threads, sizes etc. So my plan is to stay with EU stuff.. Those famous German engineers should be making some tools for brazing too, after all :)

I had my doubts about the kit too, as kits in general are mostly good for nothing. I think I read Doug comment somewhere about using acetylene gauge for measuring propane? Could you confirm that, Doug? Some opinions from others would be great too.
As for the rest of the kit, I will keep my eyes open, but as somebody said, most info online is about USA market so it's kind of hard to get a feedback on EU stuff or even to find where to buy it.

Doug, I will write you PM willing to get contacts of your student from Germany, local knowledge would be the best. Thanks

Jim Kapo