No Till Farming

[j44ke]

My family were all at some point farmers. Then one or two of them - some more recently than others - exited the farm and went on to other professions. Doctors, scientists, theologians, teachers. But I definitely have an obsession with land and farming. And when I see these sorts of projects, I just wish I knew about this stuff earlier in life - not a regret, as I certainly have plenty of outlet with forestry and land management, but just that farming like this looks so g-d great. Hard yes I know, but you can love and enjoy hard things.

[bigbill]

My grandfather was born in 1900 and graduated from Texas A&M in 1921 and Baylor in 1924 with a master's. He was a lifetime farmer and one of Roosevelt's "Scientific Farmers" who was paid to teach other farmers about crop rotation, terracing, and modified plowing methods. He was a man that believed that the more he suffered on earth, the greater his reward in the afterlife. He died at 97 in the room where he was born. Growing up, I worked on the farm and started driving tractors at 9. Until I was older, I didn't understand how difficult the work was compared to others with more modern equipment. I guess I was also fortunate to survive childhood with all my appendages.

[vertical_doug]

I look at this completely different. It is pure luxury. It is niche where people will pay a premium for the product and experience. That's really what he is marketing.

The reality is he cannot feed Wales, much less England.

Our kitchen pantry is like our clothing closet. We may have a few luxury items made by hands, but our day to day wear is mass produced underwear, t-shirts etc.
We may have a few farm fresh items, but our bulk items are all produced on industrial farms. It's the only way we get scale and feed ourselves.

When I was a kid in Minnesota growing up in farm country, we called these hobby farms. It was mostly wealthy wives who wanted to ride horses.

[j44ke]

I look at this completely different. It is pure luxury. It is niche where people will pay a premium for the product and experience. That's really what he is marketing.

The reality is he cannot feed Wales, much less England.

Our kitchen pantry is like our clothing closet. We may have a few luxury items made by hands, but our day to day wear is mass produced underwear, t-shirts etc.
We may have a few farm fresh items, but our bulk items are all produced on industrial farms. It's the only way we get scale and feed ourselves.

When I was a kid in Minnesota growing up in farm country, we called these hobby farms. It was mostly wealthy wives who wanted to ride horses.

Well, admittedly he has funds coming in from outside, but I think these are the farms where sustainable approaches are worked out and proved. The regular work-a-day farmer can't afford that initial break from traditional methods to take on some of these non-traditional (though in some cases they were formerly traditional) approaches. You have to have funds enough to take risks and make mistakes, whether that comes from personal fortune or government subsidies. And then from there you can wrestle with aspects of scalability, and if you listen to what he says about building soil, that's a scaleable approach and has already been shown to be so, especially in tandem with animal husbandry. But yes, this is what I would call an "exhibition farm" or sort of a working laboratory. I don't think he trying to feed Wales or England, but he could feed the local community or reduce the requirements of the local community to bring in as much food as they do from outside. And if there are ways to increase the number of community-based farms, that seems like a step in the right direction. The amount of animals we produce annually through farming the US has a climate affect. The transport associated with industrial farming has a climate affect. The use of fertilizers, pesticides, mono-culture, etc. - those are all problems that need solving. Some of the ideas coming out of farms like these (and some of the farms here in Columbia County are not bankrolled by personal fortunes by any stretch) are important.

[Scott G.]

For a different view by non-hobby farmers.
Both authors families have been farming for generations, in Rebanks case centuries on the same land.
Both are finding a way between corporate-ag and environmentalists.

English view, "Pastoral Song" by James Rebanks
then for the American view, "This Blessed Earth" by Ted Genoways

[Too Tall]

I really have no dog, well actually I have a dog but he does not fight.

Just as a example how radical farming can and does work. In a county where I camp much of the summer there is a couple who intensively farm one as in a single digit acre. They eschew any non-human powered assist and will not use chemicals. They work their fannies off and the local community cleans them out as fast as they can produce. They are solvent and sustainable.

There are dozens more similar operations I'm aware of most are not so radical yet do embrace the most productive and useful portions of sustainable/organic farming. They are providing to the area counties and not much more but that's enough.

This is not your father's Oldsmobile and yeah it will not be the case in most places yet this county in VA is doing well. Go figure?

[j44ke]

For a different view by non-hobby farmers.
Both authors families have been farming for generations, in Rebanks case centuries on the same land.
Both are finding a way between corporate-ag and environmentalists.

English view, "Pastoral Song" by James Rebanks
then for the American view, "This Blessed Earth" by Ted Genoways

Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms near Staunton VA - similar lineage. Long time family farm reconfigured around sustainable and humane farming practices.

https://www.polyfacefarms.com

[Todd Amunrud]

We have numerous CSA’s in our area servicing the metro area of Minneapolis. They’ve converted not tons of acres but a point made by one farmer that they’ve turned 40 acres of corn and soybean that fed minimal, if any people directly (and supported one family), to a farm that feeds numerous families(can’t remember the total membership) and supports 5-7 employees. The land is diversified, soil is maintained without farming supplements(fertilizer, lime, pesticides, etc), and supports a larger biodiversity. The catch is nearly all members are pretty well off. Many do sliding scale membership, but that proportion is minuscule. Two farms do provide a lot of extra vegetables to food shelves and our public schools in the area. Yeah, the dent is small when there are tens of thousands of acres in corn and soybeans in our area. Syngenta and Monsanto have research facilities within a few miles of town.

[Too Tall]

Dangit, I forgot to mention the chicken farmer. You call ahead for your order and are reminded that if you arrive early to help with slaughter there is a discount.

[j44ke]

We have numerous CSA’s in our area servicing the metro area of Minneapolis. They’ve converted not tons of acres but a point made by one farmer that they’ve turned 40 acres of corn and soybean that fed minimal, if any people directly (and supported one family), to a farm that feeds numerous families(can’t remember the total membership) and supports 5-7 employees. The land is diversified, soil is maintained without farming supplements(fertilizer, lime, pesticides, etc), and supports a larger biodiversity. The catch is nearly all members are pretty well off. Many do sliding scale membership, but that proportion is minuscule. Two farms do provide a lot of extra vegetables to food shelves and our public schools in the area. Yeah, the dent is small when there are tens of thousands of acres in corn and soybeans in our area. Syngenta and Monsanto have research facilities within a few miles of town.

One of the CSAs here started a charitable membership connected to some of the local food banks during the first year of the pandemic. Anyone could buy gift memberships that would then be turned over to the food bank to be disbursed to families experiencing food shortages. Evidently it worked very well, and they've continued the program. The gift accounts are undifferentiated from any other CSA account, so purchasers are relatively anonymous. And what was originally a CSA is now a small local produce grocery store, so I think there is even the option to pickup a weekly pre-stocked box or select your own up to a certain dollar amount per week. The farm that backs up the CSA also does a bruised or damaged dispersal to food banks during harvests.

[bigbill]

Our Wyoming property is located between the Bighorn River and the Bighorn Canal. The land is terraced; we will occupy the upper section and leave the lower section for grazing horses and the occasional pronghorn. We disabled the irrigation for the lower section; if we're not planting a crop, it isn't necessary. There is plenty of seepage and rain to support native grasses for grazing. The upper section contains our new septic system (tank and leach field) and is around 3 acres. We plan on having a garden as early as next summer. The town has a farmer's market every Saturday from May through October, so we'll probably focus on heirloom-type crops and vegetables that taste good but may be lacking in looks.

[Tom]

Dangit, I forgot to mention the chicken farmer. You call ahead for your order and are reminded that if you arrive early to help with slaughter there is a discount.

Oh, no, no, no. No. I've plucked chickens. I did not enjoy it. I'd pay extra not to do it again.

[Too Tall]

Oh, no, no, no. No. I've plucked chickens. I did not enjoy it. I'd pay extra not to do it again.

Indeed one wonders if it is more of a tongue in cheek challenge to see if anyone has the stuff(ing) for the job.

[Scott G.]

Indeed one wonders if it is more of a tongue in cheek challenge to see if anyone has the stuff(ing) for the job.

I call a foul, no poultry puns are permitted.

VS Rule1125

[bcm119]

A lot of those hobby farms seem to be inspired by Instagram culture. They have a terrible track record of long term success; the ones that do succeed exist within a local economy supported by big city money, and usually leverage the experience and work ethic of an actual local farmer who has joined the business. There was a great NYT article about this phenomenon in the Hudson Valley recently. There's nothing wrong with it really, as long as everyone involved checks their privilege at the barn door.

[j44ke]

A lot of those hobby farms seem to be inspired by Instagram culture. They have a terrible track record of long term success; the ones that do succeed exist within a local economy supported by big city money, and usually leverage the experience and work ethic of an actual local farmer who has joined the business. There was a great NYT article about this phenomenon in the Hudson Valley recently. There's nothing wrong with it really, as long as everyone involved checks their privilege at the barn door.

Who was the farmer who joined this effort? I may have missed that information in the video.

There is a program in NYS that gives the owner a tax abatement on lands if they produce revenue of some $ value through agriculture. I think that's the article that you mentioned? Usually in those cases, the owners have no intention of actually doing any farming, they just want the tax abatement. They hire a farmer who agrees to work the lands. Then the farmer signs an affidavit listing revenue produced, and the owner files that with the state. We looked at land that actually "came with" a farmer who managed a large hayfield that was part of the land. That particular hayfield was known to produce high quality hay, so the farmer clearly saw the relationship as in his interests (he could get top $$) and made sure the realtor knew that. But not many of these are truly working farms or using innovative techniques.

Kinderhook Farm is a true working farm in this area. It is owned by a wealthy family, but they are directly involved in the planning and management of the farm. I forget how many employees, but the operation is large enough there are several houses on the property where farm employees live. They follow some similar approaches as Polyface Farm for their beef, pork and chicken production. You can find their beef in NYC restaurants and elsewhere. They also have a pretty nice farm stay set-up. Right on one of Slow Poke Pete's favorite routes too.

[vertical_doug]

Along this line, David Rockefeller owned the Hudson Pines Farm in Pocantico Hills next to Kykuit until his death. He was interested in preserving the Simmental breed of cattle. Peggy Rockefeller was the original one who was behind Blue Hills and all that organic farming.

I do find it interesting but stand by my statement this is largely a luxury item.

[Too Tall]

Along this line, David Rockefeller owned the Hudson Pines Farm in Pocantico Hills next to Kykuit until his death. He was interested in preserving the Simmental breed of cattle. Peggy Rockefeller was the original one who was behind Blue Hills and all that organic farming.

I do find it interesting but stand by my statement this is largely a luxury item.

Depends where you stand. If you live in a mostly agrarian community and or work from home these small sustainable operations are not more expensive or disposable. Convenience, however, becomes the driver and at what bearable cost for each consumer?

You can skew this with cultural bias and I agree it will not scale.

[thollandpe]

Along this line, David Rockefeller owned the Hudson Pines Farm in Pocantico Hills next to Kykuit until his death. He was interested in preserving the Simmental breed of cattle. Peggy Rockefeller was the original one who was behind Blue Hills and all that organic farming.

I do find it interesting but stand by my statement this is largely a luxury item.

The Rockefellers also built and operated the Mt. Hope farm now owned Williams College, also an interesting story (it’s no longer operational).

However, the same area is also home to the state’s first CSA, which is still operating. Two people from that farm opened a CSA in my neighborhood, which is also going strong.

We get eggs for $3.50 a dozen, laid by chickens with names. The quality is head-and-shoulders above grocery store eggs. My neighbor who raises the birds has less than an acre of land, and she could do that in almost any residential setting in the country. As long as the laws would allow it — she lives in a right-to-farm community.

It’s quite possible to not buy the stuff that Smithfield and Tyson sell, and elect not to participate in that game. They did not become what they are all at once, it was a process that took time. It will take time to recognize that process and replace it with more just, sustainable, and resilient processes.