Requesting suggestions re: two dishes (cacciatore; pheasants/duck)

[echappist]

My newly purchased Le Creuset has quickly proven to be our most used cooking vessel, and I have to say that braising for osso buco is a lot better in a Dutch Oven than it is in a baking pan covered with aluminum foil with perforations.

The two recipes I'm now trying to make are chicken cacciatore and pheasants. I think I have gotten most of the former down, but the sauce is just a tad too watery. Actually, this is my issue with any dish I chose to finish on the stove top (as opposed to baking inside the oven for the last 30 minutes). The amount of veggies included probably doesn't help (for ~5 lbs of chicken thighs, I had 6 bell peppers and 1 lb. of mushrooms), but I think even reducing both by half would still give me issues. Ideal situation would be have it thick enough for dipping, as opposed to having it be almost soup like. Suggestions on this?

The other request is for recipe on pheasants. It turned out horribly when I tried it in the baking pan (before the Dutch Oven purchase), and while I think proper cooking ware would help, it doesn't hurt to seek guidance. The recipe I tried to follow wanted me to use chestnuts, but I knew of no place that sells it. Alternatively, if someone knows of a good recipe for ducks, that would also be great. End goal is to have something presentable for Thanksgiving, but not a turkey.

Many thanks in advance

[caleb]

Are we talking about wild birds here, or domesticated?

[echappist]

Domesticated birds for the cacciatore (yes, i know it’s somewhat ironic).

I think the pheasants at the butcher’s are also farm raised.

[COVRTDESIGN]

The best osso buco I ever made was in my chef days in an 800 hotel pan with the aluminum foil. Don't hate on simplicity!

[caleb]

The other request is for recipe on pheasants. It turned out horribly when I tried it in the baking pan (before the Dutch Oven purchase), and while I think proper cooking ware would help, it doesn't hurt to seek guidance. The recipe I tried to follow wanted me to use chestnuts, but I knew of no place that sells it. Alternatively, if someone knows of a good recipe for ducks, that would also be great. End goal is to have something presentable for Thanksgiving, but not a turkey.

If "presentable for Thanksgiving" means a whole roast bird, I'm probably not much help. I never cook either pheasants or ducks whole.

For pheasants, my go-to is simmering them in a tarragon cream sauce. Here's a version of it, but add a big glug of cognac and ignite it before finishing with cream and the last of the herbs. And use like 4x the amount of tarragon the recipe calls for, or at least more than you think is a good idea. Put it on mashed potatoes in November. I use both skinless breasts and legs/thighs, but at least with wild birds you need to be careful about the sinews in the legs as they get brittle and sharp when cooked. Not sure about domesticated birds.

For duck breasts, I usually marinade them in oil/vinegar/herbs, then either grill or broil to medium rare. If I'm grilling skin-on domestic duck breasts, I'll start them skin side down and only flip at the very end. Serve them on mashed potatoes with a lingonberry sauce.

[htwoopup]

Not meaning to drift this thread...but I gotta pipe in with a food hack.

If you do try duck...EVERY restaurant I have ever ordered pommes frites in while in Quebec has thrown a dollop of duck fat into the potato frying oil. Heaven.

So, if you experiment with ducks make sure you save some fat from the drippings for adding to the oil/butter/ etc you use frying potatoes, hash browns etc etc.

C'est tres bien!

[echappist]

We actually did that one year. The entire house smelled like duck fats for days afterwards. But as you say, duck fat is glorious. Baked brussel sprouts using it, and those were wonderfully crisp and tasty.

A leaner brace of pheasants, albeit with each wrapped in bacon, doesn’t produce nearly as much greasy air. But we might try the duck again.

[sk_tle]

My newly purchased Le Creuset has quickly proven to be our most used cooking vessel, and I have to say that braising for osso buco is a lot better in a Dutch Oven than it is in a baking pan covered with aluminum foil with perforations.

The two recipes I'm now trying to make are chicken cacciatore and pheasants. I think I have gotten most of the former down, but the sauce is just a tad too watery. Actually, this is my issue with any dish I chose to finish on the stove top (as opposed to baking inside the oven for the last 30 minutes). The amount of veggies included probably doesn't help (for ~5 lbs of chicken thighs, I had 6 bell peppers and 1 lb. of mushrooms), but I think even reducing both by half would still give me issues. Ideal situation would be have it thick enough for dipping, as opposed to having it be almost soup like. Suggestions on this?

The other request is for recipe on pheasants. It turned out horribly when I tried it in the baking pan (before the Dutch Oven purchase), and while I think proper cooking ware would help, it doesn't hurt to seek guidance. The recipe I tried to follow wanted me to use chestnuts, but I knew of no place that sells it. Alternatively, if someone knows of a good recipe for ducks, that would also be great. End goal is to have something presentable for Thanksgiving, but not a turkey.

Many thanks in advance

What about a spoon of maizena?

[echappist]

What about a spoon of maizena?

I’m tempted, but using corn starch has a distinctly “i’m using a touch-up pen on this paint scratch” sort of feel on dishes like this.

On other dishes (say mapo tofu), i go right ahead, as it’s part of the known technique.

[sk_tle]

Well it is not that much different than sprinkling a bit of wheat flour on the meat while preparing a boeuf bourguignon and I have seen it advised by stared chefs.

[Chik]

I read pheasant and chestnut and thought, it's a bit early in the year for either... and then I read Thanksgiving so it all made sense. I love pheasants (and really rather avoid turkey), but I leave it to the pros, to be honest.

As for the corn starch discussion, I get what you mean. However, I think flour could be a solution. Take some of the hot liquid in a cup, dissolve some flour in it, and chuck it back in.

[Tom]

If you're going to use flour check out pregelatinized flour like Wondra or similar. It dissolves much better. It's just regular flour that's been steamed and dried out again.

[echappist]

Thanks for the flour suggestions! I'll give it a try and report back.

[Chik]

Thanks for the flour suggestions! I'll give it a try and report back.

Just to add, it's best if you can scoop up mostly fat, and less watery liquid, from the pot in order to mix with the flour. Basically, you'd be making some roux and then see if it suits your preference.

[Mark Kelly]

Yeah I just cut to the chase and mix the flour in olive oil before adding it.

[echappist]

Add it initially (before the cooking/ braising) or afterwards (after the cooking of the meat is done)?

[Mark Kelly]

I am very, very salt averse*, so there is a limit to how far I can reduce the jus (even though I add no salt during cooking).

If it gets thick enough before becoming unbearably salty, all good. If not, I use the flour oil "roux" as a thickener. I used to do a proper roux with melted butter but oil is easier.




* No, I'm not on a low sodium diet, my blood pressure is fine. I just don't like salt.

[echappist]

I am very, very salt averse*, so there is a limit to how far I can reduce the jus (even though I add no salt during cooking).

If it gets thick enough before becoming unbearably salty, all good. If not, I use the flour oil "roux" as a thickener. I used to do a proper roux with melted butter but oil is easier.




* No, I'm not on a low sodium diet, my blood pressure is fine. I just don't like salt.

Thank you. I'll look up how to do an oil-based roux substitute.

For whatever reason, the whole concept of roux sounded like so much faff that I've always skipped straight past any recipes requiring it (incl. gumbo, which I like to eat). But maybe it's about time I face up and just do this properly.

Also, for whatever reason, the soupiness in the cacciatore kinda congealed when refrigerated, and it made for a semi-decent pasta sauce.

[Mark Kelly]

Thank you. I'll look up how to do an oil-based roux substitute.


Also, for whatever reason, the soupiness in the cacciatore kinda congealed when refrigerated,

Demi glace. The proteins in the extract (mostly collagen) form a gel when they cool. That's why chefs love veal stock.

[echappist]

Demi glace. The proteins in the extract (mostly collagen) form a gel when they cool. That's why chefs love veal stock.

And perhaps the reason why the recommendation for braised dishes is to cook, chill, and serve the next day on the first reheat? I think that was the recommendation for osso buco as well; though I never really followed it.