Advice on bathroom (tub/shower) tiles and fixtures

[sbornia]

Surprise home repair this week...water damage behind the tub's tiles resulted in a day of demolition, framing repairs, waterproofing, and hardiebacker.







New fixtures and tiles will go in next week, but first we've got to pick them out. For the fixtures, we'll likely go with Grohe to match the sink spout. For the tiles, we love the look of ceramic subway, especially from local maker Heath, but am pretty sure we're going with natural stone to control costs.

I usually spend months researching this stuff, but don't have that luxury this time...for those of you with more bathroom remodel experience:

- What natural stone have you found to be durable without a lot of maintenance? We've checked out marble, cremamarfil, travertine, and limestone. The porcelain tiles on our bathroom's floor make finding a complementary color for the tub walls a little tricky, but it seems like something with very light beige tones works.

- Does the origin of natural stone tiles matter?

- If we're not wed to matching the Grohe in the sink (a "Concetto" model that gets mixed reviews), what other brands should we consider that are well made?

- Pressure balance valve vs. thermostat?

- Slip fit vs. threaded tub spout?

- Diverter on the tub spout vs. on the valve trim?

Thanks for any quick guidance you can share!

[jclay]

- Pressure balance valve vs. thermostat?

We have a thermostat unit; ours sometimes drips when turned off. Turning it on/off again, sometimes a few times, resolves it. The guts have been replaced once or twice (lifetime warranty, can't remember brand and am out of town). It's fine otherwise but as a DIY guy (I built the house) I wouldn't get another and it grates me that I went along with it rather than lobbying for a regular two handle, hot and cold, unit. They're dirt simple, much easier to repair and it's a long time before the washers leak in my experience.

I've never liked the pressure balance units I've encountered in hotels. No concrete reason, maybe just not used to them.

Not that you posed this question but I wish we'd installed several saddle pairs, up high, to hold two or three clothes/outdoor gear drying rods. At least two corner shelves rather than a lone one. We have a recessed bottle holder as do you; very worthwhile.

[rwsaunders]

If you're using opaque shower door glass, I wouldn’t worry too much about the color of the shower tile is terms of syncing too closely with the floor tile. I prefer porcelain tile in the shower too over natural stone in terms of cleaning and ease of maintenance....ymmv. Experiment and mock up patterns as tile comes in all shapes and sizes as you know. I’ve used Kohler fixtures with decent success, some fixtures being in service over 20 years now and replacement parts have been simple to source. Make sure and tape that backer board in accordance with Hardie’s specifications and pay attention to the interface where the board and tile will meet the tub. That’s where water can wick if you’re not careful.

Last item, will you actually use the tub? If not, perhaps tear it out and replace with a prefab base and seat or a liner, base and seat fabbed in the field. You’ll end up with a bigger/safer shower and the full height glass will open up the room. At the least, if the tub is not as nice as the rest of the materials that you're going to install, it will stick out like a sore thumb and you’ll regret it. Replace the plumbing lines too while you're at it. Again, ymmv.

https://www.jameshardiepros.com/geta...ish-HB1710.pdf

[sbornia]

...regular two handle, hot and cold, unit. They're dirt simple, much easier to repair and it's a long time before the washers leak in my experience...

Not that you posed this question but I wish we'd installed several saddle pairs, up high, to hold two or three clothes/outdoor gear drying rods.

Great ideas, thanks!

[sbornia]

If you're using opaque shower door glass, I wouldn’t worry too much about the color of the shower tile is terms of syncing too closely with the floor tile. I prefer porcelain tile in the shower too over natural stone in terms of cleaning and ease of maintenance....ymmv. Experiment and mock up patterns as tile comes in all shapes and sizes as you know. I’ve used Kohler fixtures with decent success, some fixtures being in service over 20 years now and replacement parts have been simple to source. Make sure and tape that backer board in accordance with Hardie’s specifications and pay attention to the interface where the board and tile will meet the tub. That’s where water can wick if you’re not careful.

Last item, will you actually use the tub?

Good point about the separation of the tub walls and floors, we’ll be using a curtain that obscures the wall most of the time. We’ve got a seven year old kiddo at home, so that’s safer than glass. And the tub will stay for now, we might have it refinished at some point, or do a more thorough renovation if we win the lottery ;-).

The contractor is going to finish securing the board, install some kind of additional gasket (that’s probably not the right term, but can’t recall the name), and then coat it with Redguard before doing the tile. He also fixed the niche and window sill so that they’re sloped to drain properly.

[rwsaunders]

Yep. We used the tub in our one bathroom when the kids were younger. I know what you mean about the lottery as the cost of kitchen and bathroom renovations helps to keep the bike budgets in check.

[slwrnu]

don't ditch the bath, or tub as you call it. Sharing a bath with your partner with your feet on each other's shoulders and talking bollox is about as good as it gets.

[vertical_doug]

you might as well get a new toilet too. Get w Japanese Toto Washlet.

[j44ke]

Chicago Faucets makes some of the simplest and most durable faucet lines out there. They have a nice clean industrial appeal to their design. Excellent chrome and brass. I think most of their shower valves are thermostatic/pressure balanced, so both temp and pressure. Bathroom Faucets & Fittings for Showers & Tubs - Chicago Faucets

If you ever think you are going to get glass doors, having a hand shower option is a big help for cleaning. Also helps for hosing down the kid.

White subway tile are a nice standard and usually among the least expensive, then you can adjust the grout color to fit in with the rest of the bathroom. There are different edge profiles available. We stayed with friends recently who used flat subway tile (i.e. no edge profile, just flat rectangular tile) where the installer grouted to the surface of the tile face, so that effectively made a flat wall even though it was tiled. Very easy to squeegee dry and looked really clean and modern.

[sine]

edit

Make sure and tape that backer board in accordance with Hardie’s specifications and pay attention to the interface where the board and tile will meet the tub. That’s where water can wick if you’re not careful.

So many "professionals" skip these items. One contractor did not tape the backer board in a bathroom (previous home) and about 3 years later the tiles cracked along the upper most line. The back side of that wall section was exposed to unconditioned attic space.

I did the tile work for the following bathroom reno's......and did it right.

Keep shower tiles simple and on the bigger side. Fewer grout lines.

[thollandpe]

For the shower head: Bricor. I’ve replaced 3.0 and 2.4 gallons per minute (gpm) shower heads with 1.5 gpm, and had to measure the flow to confirm that they’re actually lower flow. They aerate the water to increase the velocity, and this is why they feel as good or better than a high-flow head.

Yes they’re expensive but if you consider how expensive hot water is, they pay back quickly.

Also consider the Evolve ShowerStart gizmo. This is a bimetallic valve that allows cold water to pass, and then closes to a trickle when the water is up to temperature to let let you know it’s ready. ASHRAE studies show roughly 1/3 of the “average” shower’s hot water volume goes down the drain while people wait for it to warm up. This gizmo gives you the added benefit of ensuring the water is warm before you step in.

Efficiently yours,
TH

[thollandpe]

edit



So many "professionals" skip these items. One contractor did not tape the backer board in a bathroom (previous home) and about 3 years later the tiles cracked along the upper most line. The back side of that wall section was exposed to unconditioned attic space.

I did the tile work for the following bathroom reno's......and did it right.

Keep shower tiles simple and on the bigger side. Fewer grout lines.

That’s great advice. It’s critical to air seal and insulate around the shower and tub surround. You will have a huge temperature and humidity gradient, and if you don’t get those details right they will cost you more than anywhere else in the house. Rock wool and spray foam are your friends.

If you weren’t in Southern California, I’d also recommend that you do your best to eliminate thermal bridging.

Lesson: it’s not only what’s facing the tub but also what’s behind it.

[j44ke]

Speaking of thermal loss, I’ve often wondered why they don’t insulate tubs.

[rwsaunders]

For the shower head: Bricor. I’ve replaced 3.0 and 2.4 gallons per minute (gpm) shower heads with 1.5 gpm, and had to measure the flow to confirm that they’re actually lower flow. They aerate the water to increase the velocity, and this is why they feel as good or better than a high-flow head.

Yes they’re expensive but if you consider how expensive hot water is, they pay back quickly.

Efficiently yours,
TH

Todd...what Bricor model do you like for home use?

[thollandpe]

Todd...what Bricor model do you like for home use?

B150 Elite R — Elite-R | Bricor Low Flow Shower Heads

[sbornia]

Good to know about Chicago Faucet if we plan a full-scale remodel in another 5-10 years, and Bricor looks like an easy future upgrade. Everything sold in California seems to be 1.8 GPM already.

Out of expedience and practicality, today we picked up a Grohe Concetto spout and valve trim that match the existing sink faucet. For the shower, we picked a Riobel wall-mount bar and hand-held unit; I had never heard of this Canadian brand before, but it looked good in the store, and the mechanism for sliding the shower head up and down is much easier to use than Grohe's.

For tile, we decided to keep things simple and go with white subway ceramic. Still deciding between 3x6 vs. 3x9. It's basic, made in China/Sri Lanka stuff, which is not what I'd normally pick if I had more time to really plan out something nice. But we know it will look clean and simple, and if for some reason we sell the house before a full bath reno, it will be so neutral it won't polarize buyers.

Pix next week of the completed work.

[jclay]

That’s great advice. It’s critical to air seal and insulate around the shower and tub surround. You will have a huge temperature and humidity gradient, and if you don’t get those details right they will cost you more than anywhere else in the house. Rock wool and spray foam are your friends.

If you weren’t in Southern California, I’d also recommend that you do your best to eliminate thermal bridging.

Lesson: it’s not only what’s facing the tub but also what’s behind it.

Seriously excellent advice. BTW and in that vein, I recommend everybody who's off-grade check the underside of their house for signs of mold. If your house is air conditioned and you live an an environment that has humidity and a dew point anywhere near the coldest temperatures in the house then you live on a flat plate condenser. The wooden subfloor and joist moisture content may be in the wood destroying organism range. If yu have floor registers then they should be insulated and well sealed regardless of the above; that's a prime place for condensation since the ducts get much colder than the house. Ask me how I know.

[sbornia]

Meant to post this a few weeks ago...the surprise project turned out well. Nothing fancy, but practical and durable.