Question for the guitar/music folks

[false_aesthetic]

The rig:

20watt Jet City head (20HV).
1x12 cabinet maple/mahogany (same dimensions as an Orange 1x12 cab). Can be open or closed back.
Jenson C12K.

The issue:
Everything is super muddy. e.g. bass=3.5 mid=1 treb=8 gets me close to what I want clean. When I throw in distortion I'm doing something really similar. I never thought I'd be using a thrash metal EQ.

I'm sure it's the combo of having a head designed to be on the "dark" side and a speaker that with the following descriptors:
Lows: Tight Mids: Aggressive Highs: Subtle

But I'm also wondering if this is a result of powering a 100w speaker with a 20w amp.

[defspace]

Hmm, I doubt it's the speaker/head wattage issue alone. I'm running a power attenuator at home and I know I'm not hitting my 100w speakers with anywhere close to 100w, and I'm still plenty bright. It could be a contributing factor though.

Does moving it around in the room change things much? Running the cab open or closed - same result? When did this problem start?

[false_aesthetic]

Removing the back helped but not much and it doesn't that much difference moving the rig around.
It's been an issue since I put the rig together --- I just grabbed a speaker I had.

I guess the cheapest way to try to solve the problem is to drop in a 25-30 watt Greenback clone and see how that works out.

[Peter Polack]

It's a tube amplifier, and one of their "charming" qualities is their overdrive distortion. Could be they designed the amp so sound distorted well before the amp goes into clipping.

The speaker: Speakers distort when they're near breaking up, and consequently their lifespans are reduced. I don't think they'd design a speaker that deliberately distorts.

Get a solid state amp if you want cleaner sound.

[false_aesthetic]

It's not about cleaner (vs distorted/over-driven) sound it's about muddy sound. Like too much mids + bass even when the treble is @ 10 and the mids are scooped.

[Bob Ross]

It's not about cleaner (vs distorted/over-driven) sound it's about muddy sound. Like too much mids + bass even when the treble is @ 10 and the mids are scooped.

Get the speaker cabinet up off the floor: But it on a chair or a stool or a couple of milk crates or cinder blocks, anything to get it out of the acoustic half-space of the floor.
Also, while I'm not familiar the Jet City EQ circuit, it's worth noting that a lot of guitar amps model their tone controls after the classic Fender tone stack...which was at its flattest [sic] with Bass and Treble at 2 or 3, and Mid all the way up to 10. Now, that's rarely an appropriate setting for iconic electric guitar sounds, but it is often a good starting place to then say "okay, now what do I want to add/subtract?"

[false_aesthetic]

^ yep. I took it off the ground wondering if it would sound better. It does but the mids are still super present. The lady nixed me putting it in the middle of the living room though :(

I'll spend the next few days starting at your recommended settings to see what I can pull out of it.

Currently:

Clean (1-9):
Gain: 1.5 Volume: 2-4 Bass: 5 Mid: 2 Treb: 8 Presence: 8-9
This gets me to a decent clean tone with just a little bite.

Dirty (1-10):
Distortion: 6-7 Bass: 6 Mid: 3.5-4 Treb: 8

Compared to the Marshall I had:
Clean: Bass: 6 Mid: 4 Treb: 7
Dirty: Bass: 10 Mid: 8-9 Treb: 5

[spopepro]

Have you tried different tubes? "Muddy" and "no top" is frequently what people describe when their tubes are on their way out. Also check the cathode bias while you're at it (unless the amp is using a constant current sink or some kind... they don't appear to have posted a schematic).

Make sure you're using the correct impedance taps. You mentioned the driver, but they make it in 4, 8, and 16 ohm versions. Tubes are super sensitive to having the right reflected load, and one possible consequence is that you are rolling off the highs because of mismatched impedance.

[boxerboxer]

The rig:

20watt Jet City head (20HV).
1x12 cabinet maple/mahogany (same dimensions as an Orange 1x12 cab). Can be open or closed back.
Jenson C12K.

The issue:
Everything is super muddy

What guitar(s) are you playing through it?

[duende]

What guitar(s) are you playing through it?

Exactly,

Guitar pups have a much greater impact on the brightness or darkness of one's tone than an amp.

[false_aesthetic]

Same guitars I've been playing for at least 15 years with every set-up I've had.

Les Paul Special (soap bars - P100)
Fernandez Monterey (humbuckers)
Peavy Wolfgang (humbuckers)

[duende]

Well humbuckers are by nature higher gain and darker. You probably know this. But to make a humbucker you stack two single coil pickups slightly out of phase to cancel out noise and increase gain. Unfortunately some high end gets lost in the mix too.

You just might need an amp with more clean headroom. One that can handle the higher output from your guitars.

The math goes likes this.. bass frequencies take more power (voltage), therefore reducing the low frequencies will also clean up the amp, reduce distortion and low end mud.