Caving - I want a power meter, help

[s_curran]

I like the efficiency of using the estimated power on the trainer. I'm able to do shorter rides, with more accurate goals. I'd like to be able to train more accurately on the road next year, to leave myself more time for fun rides. In that same vein, I will probably trying to follow a more accurate training plan.

Is there any go to right now for value? I was thinking its stages, but i'm not sure. Aslo looking at the 4iiii stuff. At this point id be ok with sram or shimano. Is the one sided thing an actual problem? I wouldnt have worried bout it, but I know when I do certain kicks in CX races, Im putting more power out of my right leg, but maybe its not as big of a difference as I imagine. Im using a Garmin 810 unit, if that matters.

[Matthew Strongin]

I'm really happy with my Quarqs. Their new platform has brought the prices down a bit and once you factor in that you get a full crank (no rings) the price isn't that far off from Stages. They've been reliable, consistent, and easy to maintain with battery swaps and firmware updates.

[Bewheels]

I have a Stages and a Power2Max before that.
Both work very well.

I personally don't care much about needing to know what each individual legs is doing. I have had those meters in the past (Power2Max does via estimation) to know that I am 'even enough'.

The main reason I moved to Stages from the Power2Max is because all my bikes have Shimano cranks and I can simply pull off the non-drive crank and throw it on another bike as well as having the freedom of swapping chainrings with out any issues. The new Power2Max may have easier chainring swapping available.

Both have all the features that Matt listed about.

I would buy either one again without hesitation.

Way back we did beta testing for PowerTap. Once they sorted it all out the product also worked really well. But prefer crank based to keep wheel options open.

[dogrange]

I have a Stages and a 4iii. The 4iii was really cheap (~$400) and they attached it to my existing DA crankarm, so it seems like it might be a cost leader? Both work fine, but if anything the 4iii is more stable (less spikes) than the Stages. I imagine that something that would measure both legs is better, but this works fine for my very modest needs.

[mzilliox]

im curious is anyone using the pedals for power meter? considering going this route.

[mrad2181]

I have used Powertap wireless, quarq, stages, and Garmin Vector (1 sided). Honestly, they are all about the same. I have leaned towards the Garmin lately as have gotten pretty cheap. Only issue I have with the Garmin is the lack of a mtn bike pedal.

[dogrange]

I would be all over the BePro power pedals except that, like all the others, they are Look cleats. I am Shimano cleats and I am not changing, unless I really have some change of heart that I currently do not forsee. I wish one of the pedal options (prefereably the cheapest, currently BePro) would include the Shimano cleat standard. OK, it would have to be BePro or another single-piece unit, as I just looked at teh Garmin vector, and in addition to being much more expensive and harder to install, that appendage thing on the pedals is a no-go for me.

[mzilliox]

I would be all over the BePro power pedals except that, like all the others, they are Look cleats. I am Shimano cleats and I am not changing, unless I really have some change of heart that I currently do not forsee. I wish one of the pedal options (prefereably the cheapest, currently BePro) would include the Shimano cleat standard. OK, it would have to be BePro or another single-piece unit, as I just looked at teh Garmin vector, and in addition to being much more expensive and harder to install, that appendage thing on the pedals is a no-go for me.

I don't mind the look cleats, maybe these are in my future, time for some research. Thanks

[murphy]

im curious is anyone using the pedals for power meter? considering going this route.

I am using the Powertap P1 pedals. Love them. Setup was super easy (just install pedals unlike Garmins where you have to torque perfectly or get wonky measurements). Pair easily with my Garmin. If you have iOS you can see pedaling metrics through their app. For reference, I have both pedals although I believe Powertap is now offering one-sided as well now.

[dogrange]

I am using the Powertap P1 pedals. Love them. Setup was super easy (just install pedals unlike Garmins where you have to torque perfectly or get wonky measurements). Pair easily with my Garmin. If you have iOS you can see pedaling metrics through their app. For reference, I have both pedals although I believe Powertap is now offering one-sided as well now.

These are also Look cleats?

[murphy]

These are also Look cleats?

Look cleats work although I believe they are technically Welgo cleat interfaces (since that is who makes the pedal itself).

[big boom]

I have the Pioneer two sided power meter and I quite like it, my only complaint is the Pioneer head unit is pretty unspectacular. For me the dual sided was actually beneficial for me as there was actually a significant difference in power between my legs which actually helped me smooth out my pedal stroke but for those that don't have that issue there is no benefit in dual sided, IMO.

[BSUdude]

Best bang for buck crank-based is probably Power2Max...Powertap hubs are in the same price range, even built to basic wheels. Both are very solid devices.

I have no personal experience with Stages, but know several who have used them and have had issues. This has been a year or so ago so maybe they have fixed them. Plus it is 1 leg only. A L/R imbalance of ~5% is not uncommon for some people, so it could really throw your number if you ever are comparing it to a wattage table or move to another PM. For me the few hundred dollars savings wouldn't be worth it.

Check out DCRainmaker's guide if you haven't already

The Power Meters Buyer’s Guide–216 Edition | DC Rainmaker

Used PMs abound. A used SRM is probably going to be more solid than some of the new devices out there.

IMO, unless you're nerding out looking at files, I don't think there is much use for power in a CX race...training, absolutely, but for during a race, nah.

[EightySixer]

factor in that you get a full crank

Actually a very good point. I would want something I could swap around bike to bike but an XC MTB would be low on my priority. If I got a 170 or 172.5mm road crankset I could swap between the roadie and the cx bike depending on the season and what I'll be riding most of.

Sounds like a justifyable plan
Summer & Winter (trainer): Road Bike with Look pedals (Or your SPD-SL, Andy)
Spring & Fall: CX bike (allroad) with Shimano SPD's

Power2Max has Rotor 3D (non plus) for $790 retail and you're getting a $400-ish crankset.

Not a bad deal when looked at from that perspective.

http://www.power2max.com/northameric...r-with-cranks/

[Bewheels]

Slight thread drift...

There are several great options out there for the actual power meter. It is important that what the power meter is to be used for is fairly well thought out before finding the tool its self.

For example, there was a comment in the thread about not using the power meter during CX races. Back in the day (I know people love that phrase), we used to use power meters during events not just from the perspective of "I am doing XXX watts so I better go harder/easier" but rather as data collection. It was to understand what the needs required of the event and then do whatever training to match those needs...bursty efforts, prolonged efforts, etc. But if you don't need (or care) to collect data during an event then there is no need to use a power meter during an event. I am guessing that there are power profiles for a lot of events available at this point. If not, then there is an opportunity for someone to make a site for this in their spare time...

Another example is single leg versus dual leg readouts. If there is a discrepancy, then having the ability to work on this properly is great. If there is no history of a discrepancy then there is little need for that data. Of course there is a dilemma of sorting out whether there is a discrepancy to begin with...

Another example is how often will the device be swapped between bikes? The type of device is really important here. Do you have to recalibrate it every time its moved? How involved is the calibration? If you are going between a road bike with road pedals and a CX and MTB pedals then a pedal based unit isn't a good idea. Is the device swappable between the bikes - a Stages power meter can not be installed on a Trek Crockett because there isn't enough clearance between the chainstay and the inside of the crank.
Etc, etc

The other thing to point out is that these devices get better very quickly. When doing research it is really important to pay the most attention to the latest version of the devices because an issue that cause a lot of internet noise 12 months ago could very well be fixed. Now if you are looking at the used market, then historical info is really important.

The good news is that there are a lot of great options. The bad news is that there are a lot of great options.

[DOOFUS]

The more you pick apart the data (using the advanted metrics in WKO, for instance), the more limitations are evident with one-sided devices. If you're just looking at the big picture (fatigue vs freshness, MMP curve, training zones) one-sided devices get you in the ballpark.

My prefs from 18 years of PM usage:

1) SRM. The daddy. Worth the price.

2) Quarq -- I haven't used one personally, but I've worked with a half-dozen guys who use them, and the data is reliable -- occasional spikes, but overall I'd rate it better than P2M for the ability of the user to check calibration.

3) Powertap. I know, clinchers suck. But, a Powertap carbon clincher wheelset is a really good option. You'll need the hub overhaul about every 10-12k miles, but the data is reliable, accurate, and consistent, and I rarely, rarely see wonkiness.

4) P2M. Affordable crank-based unit, I liked the one that I had on a loaner bike in Germany. The data was 10-20w lower than what I saw from my PT hubs (which I've torqued tested -- and yep, I know how to do that test accurately). The dynamic calibration of those units might be behind the lower readings. I'm not a big fan of the user not being able to check calibration.

5) Stages. Not good for looking at advanced pedaling metrics, and the normalized power numbers are consistently wonky (and Stages says they don't believe in NP as a metric -- the only PM company to say so...which to me sounds like a rationalization of the unit's performance). I tried one for a week, and it read 10% higher than my PT. Where this is a problem, in my mind, is with weight management. I, like some others, have the appetite of a Labrador. The inflated KJ numbers don't help that -- if I hadn't known the numbers were high, I would have been slogging down 500+ extra calories a day. Granted, I'm left leg dominant. I think it's a gateway device -- gets you into power, but when you start seeing the limitations of the device, you start looking upmarket at the dual-sided or hub-based options.


I'd side with a PT carbon clincher wheelset (I use the AMP 35/50 one) or a Quarq. Best values imho.

[dashDustin]

I'd buy a used SRM or Quarq (newer, post-Saturn/ Cinqo) before buying anything else.

[BSUdude]

CC is blowing out pre DZero model quarqs right now...some good deals.

[11.4]

SRM. If that's a problem, Quarq.

I'd have more to say but I'm still trying to get my mind around what you use a power meter for when spelunking.

[Tamu8104]

I've had PT, SRM, Quarq, and Stages. I don't currently have a PM since I don't race or do structured training right now but if I did my first choice would be Shimano SRM or the Quarq shimano spider. I like being able to have the flexibility to go from CX rings to 53/39. SRM is the gold standard and the Quarq is the most user friendly from a maintenance/calibration perspective. The Stages was easy to move bike to bike but it's not as consistent or reliable as Quarq or SRM. One of my regular riding buddies has a P2M and really likes it but I'd rather get a Quarq to have user calibration.