The direction of society lately

[caleb]

Although I'm relatively young, I've learned long ago that the world operates best when consequences (good or bad) are meted out. If anything, it's when one's good deeds aren't rightfully rewarded (e.g. labor class deprived of sufficient compensation) or when one's bad deeds aren't rightfully punished (take your pick on things such as PE leveraged buyouts or the J6 insurrectionists all getting carte blanche pardon) that cynicism truly takes over.

As someone who likes people and believes in America as a force for good, I oppose most everything the current administration is doing.

As someone who thinks democracy matters and elections need to have consequences in order for our institutions to remain legitimate, I think the administration needs to do everything it promised. Every. last. thing. Deport everyone. Universal 100% tariffs. Invade Gaza and occupy it. All of it, to a "T".

And then in two years and four years we can have a reckoning about whether those were good choices.

It's four years of hollow rhetoric and half measures reducing politics to a social media game that I think is the greatest threat to people wanting democracy and believing in it right now.

[gregl]

As someone who likes people and believes in America as a force for good, I oppose most everything the current administration is doing.

As someone who thinks democracy matters and elections need to have consequences in order for our institutions to remain legitimate, I think the administration needs to do everything it promised. Every. last. thing. Deport everyone. Universal 100% tariffs. Invade Gaza and occupy it. All of it, to a "T".

And then in two years and four years we can have a reckoning about whether those were good choices.

It's four years of hollow rhetoric and half measures reducing politics to a social media game that I think is the greatest threat to people wanting democracy and believing in it right now.

Two fundamental flaws in our little democratically elected republic experiment: (1) The founding fathers believed that elected leaders would act in good faith. (2) The founding fathers believed that the majority of eligible citizens would exercise their rights to vote. Both of these beliefs have proven to be tragically wrong. Congratulations, America, you've got exactly the government you voted for.

Greg

[vertical_doug]

The best course of action in my opinion is just step aside and tell the Trump administration to knock-yourself out.

Being in 'opposition' as before just works against you. Trump needs an enemy- whether real or perceived, doesn't matter. By disappearing, the democrats basically remove the diversion of blaming the enemy and the conversation focuses on policy and its effect. If anything, you want them to hurry up and accelerate.

Focus the energy at 2026 midterms in the summer of 2026. Until then, let them run amok. It's what a small majority of Americans voted for. You only need a small minority of those to become disillusioned to turn it around. I think most of those voted for the low handing fruit, too much woke, illegal immigration etc. The rest of the stuff we have coming down the pike with Project 2025 they will not like as much.

Some of the unintended/intended consequences take time to surface in his policy.
1. If you saw his 'Groceries' interview, you know he thinks he won votes because he promised to get the price groceries down. Depending on which part of California you are in, somewhere between 70-80% of farm workers are illegal. The big industrial farms tend to be republican, so the donors make sure ICE hasn't raided them yet, but eventually the cat will get out of the bag.
2. Eggs are not coming down because of bird flu. I don't think bird flu will go over by itself, and with CDC funding curtailed, and bird flu research stopped, research reports embargoed it will persist for longer.
3. Saudi's and US frackers will not drill more even if the President says drill baby drill. Over supply will be very bad for them so I doubt we will see more relief at the pump. The Saudis have said as much.
4. The Gaza plan will not work. Look up Black September with the PLO and Jordan. In 1971, the King of Jordan was fed up with the PLO and their terror attacks. (If I remember correctly, I think the aircraft hijackings in 1970 were the straw that broke the camel's back). Jordan declared war on the PLO and parts of the PLO fled to Lebanon. This destabilized Lebanon and was probably the spark that began the civil war in Lebanon which has led us here with Hezbollah. If you allow Gazans to leave, enough of Hamas will leave with them to destabilize whichever country they go to. This I am sure.
5. Tariffs will bite.
6. DOGE will be the doggie that bites. The effect of suddenly halting US Federal payments will have large cumulative impacts downstream. The one thing I understand about Elon is to get to his long term goal, he is willing to take a lot of pain and volatility. Trump has never been this way, and this is when their paths will diverge.
7. If the economy starts to falter, Trump will panic. Remember, he only understands simple things and a strong stock market is like a daily barometer of his popularity in his mind.

I have stocked up on popcorn.

[j44ke]

^This^

But it won't be fun.

Jordan in 1971 is key. The PLO were essentially Hussein's guests, so the airport bombing was a travesty and Hussein decided they had to be removed. Factions within the PLO wanted to stage a coup d'etat and convert Jordan into a Palestinian country and they tried several times to assassinate Hussein. Rumors were that Israeli intelligence sent in helicopters to extract Hussein at a particularly tense moment, but in reality Hussein may have flown himself (he was a pilot) to Israel to receive in-person assurances of Israel's support in the face of Syrian involvement. After 1971, Palestinians were persona non grata in Jordan, and Hussein became very important as a facilitator between Israel and the Arab world (though not without stumbles.) His name was invoked during the negotiations of Abraham Accords.

Gaza is too valuable to Israel to allow the Palestinians to stay, and it is too valuable to the surrounding Muslim countries as a place to keep the Palestinians.

Edited for factual clarity - very confusing period and my memory is not what it used to be. We had a family friend who fought in the 6-Day War, which happened in 1967, and I remember him being called back to Israel in the 1970's. His stories left quite an impression on me. I was 8 or 9 years old then.

[robin3mj]

I agree with all this, except for the popcorn bit. I am not looking forward to watching the flames.

My concern with the economy is there’s a fine line between “they voted for it, let them feel the consequences” and “when the USA sneezes, the whole world catches a cold”

Sending a recession out into this increasingly destabilized world is going to be ugly. In the first Trump admin, you got the sense that the business community (no matter what you think about them) could keep him in check because at root they’re both capitalists. It doesn’t feel that way any more. It’s capitalism versus arsonism/Naziism.

I’m in the DC area and seemingly half our town is State Dept, USDA, Interior, etc. The Musk takeover is at the forefront of every conversation these past couple weeks. People are shell shocked.

[sk_tle]

This.

Letting the president of the second world power do the shit he wants will make a lot of people suffer across the world. It will not help slowing down global warming either and we will all suffer the consequences.

[suspectdevice]

I agree with all this, except for the popcorn bit. I am not looking forward to watching the flames.

My concern with the economy is there’s a fine line between “they voted for it, let them feel the consequences” and “when the USA sneezes, the whole world catches a cold”

Sending a recession out into this increasingly destabilized world is going to be ugly. In the first Trump admin, you got the sense that the business community (no matter what you think about them) could keep him in check because at root they’re both capitalists. It doesn’t feel that way any more. It’s capitalism versus arsonism/Naziism.

I’m in the DC area and seemingly half our town is State Dept, USDA, Interior, etc. The Musk takeover is at the forefront of every conversation these past couple weeks. People are shell shocked.

Tell your neighbors to HOLD THE LINE for all of us!
Until SCOTUS guts the Impoundment Act, congress still controls federal spending.

Remember, this is textbook fascism. Your neighbors fate rests in The Supremes…

[j44ke]

Tell your neighbors to HOLD THE LINE for all of us!
Until SCOTUS guts the Impoundment Act, congress still controls federal spending.

Remember, this is textbook fascism. Your neighbors fate rests in The Supremes…

I think we have a 50/50 chance at best that the SC majority will do what needs doing. They love Congressional legislation & State control and dislike Executive proclamation historically, but they haven't shown interest in legal precedent or interpretive dancing - unless it is their own. The lesson post-Scalia is don't leave your fate up to SCOTUS.

[caleb]

V-Salon. Come for the bikes, stay for the knowledge.

This thread contains more perspective on the Middle East than any major news outlet I've read in recent history.

[vertical_doug]

At a minimum, Roberts, Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch will support the unitary executive theory. They have all cited it in prior opinions on why the President has authority to do certain things.

[Mabouya]

Gaza is too valuable to Israel to allow the Palestinians to stay

Legally, I don't think Israel can just take it, despite what Bibi's right wing (and Trump) might want. Of course if they really, really want it, nothing short of a strongly worded message from the US (which under this administration is definitely not going to happen) can stop them, but I don't think they want to pay the price, even if they have been given some form of a green light by Trump's statements.

[j44ke]

Legally, I don't think Israel can just take it, despite what Bibi's right wing (and Trump) might want. Of course if they really, really want it, nothing short of a strongly worded message from the US (which under this administration is definitely not going to happen) can stop them, but I don't think they want to pay the price, even if they have been given some form of a green light by Trump's statements.

I was just trying to convey that the situation is rock and hard place and the Palestinians are in between, not only because of Israel but because the Muslim Middle East has its own Palestinian problem.

[thollandpe]

Now Will We Believe What Is Happening Right in Front of Us? | Nyork Times (Gift Article)

It’s hard to pick just one excerpt, it’s so well written, but here’s one:

“The natural tendency in a functioning democracy is to look for ways to ‘work across the aisle’ and ‘agree to disagree.’ But appeasement now would be a mistake. This anti-democratic movement has no interest in compromise. Any concessions will help consolidate the powers of a lawless presidency and entrench a new, kleptocratic, authoritarian form of government in the United States.”

[echappist]

And now CFPB is on the chopping block, and funding for scientific research will be significantly cut.

I can’t imagine what creative cuts will be implemented next. May be a very wild ride coming up.

I wonder if it would even be helpful to write to or show up at the local office of my state’s GOP senator…

[suspectdevice]

Working in Texas is so heartbreaking.
On weekends I frequent a breakfast place way out in the middle of the Hill Country.
Lots of rust free hardbody pickups with stickers indicating what branch the ole codgers inside served in.

Last year I would constantly overhear conversations approving of the militarized border theater going on down at the big river.

This year I keep overhearing “it’s all going so great except for those damn lawyers getting in his way”.

How is it that people who took an oath to defend the Constitution also seem to have so much contempt for it?

I know lots and lots of veterans and active service personnel. The only ones that are cheerleaders for American collapse all seem to be… old. Thank goodness.

[vespasianus]

As someone who likes people and believes in America as a force for good, I oppose most everything the current administration is doing.

That is your fundamental misunderstanding. America has never been a force for good but rather a place for the wealthy to increase their wealth. American's think George Washington was a saint but to the rest of the world, he was a simple surveyor who wanted the lands west of the Appalachians. Land the British had said would remain for the indigenous peoples.

Our aid the third world is not to help them, but to allow them some level of economy to buy our goods. We are drug dealers, that is all.

[Saab2000]

That is your fundamental misunderstanding. America has never been a force for good but rather a place for the wealthy to increase their wealth. American's think George Washington was a saint but to the rest of the world, he was a simple surveyor who wanted the lands west of the Appalachians. Land the British had said would remain for the indigenous peoples.

Our aid the third world is not to help them, but to allow them some level of economy to buy our goods. We are drug dealers, that is all.

This is how I see it as well. In my lifetime the US has been involved in many military endeavors. None really had a positive outcome, even for the US and certainly not for the bystanders abroad. The US leaves a trail of destruction it appears. Having lived abroad and embedded in a different culture, not just among other Americans, my eyes see the US very differently from how most other Americans see themselves.

[bigbill]

“The president wants her out of her quarters.”

Sorry, been busy. Here is the USNI article on her firing. https://news.usni.org/2025/01/21/adm...ard-commandant

[rwsaunders]

Sorry, been busy. Here is the USNI article on her firing. https://news.usni.org/2025/01/21/adm...ard-commandant

I actually took the time to read the news of her termination, and the referenced GAO report and 5 reasons for the termination are identified. Several of the issues in the GAO date back to 2010 when she was not in charge (appointed June 2022). Note that FOX News was the first to report the dismissal…imagine that.

1. Recruitment goals and shortfalls…nothing unique to any of the branches when you read the report and search the USNI archive and DOD reports…general decline in recruits and retention with lower birth rates, etc.
2. Aging fleet and funding…didn’t happen overnight, right?
3. Fentanyl continues to enter the country…The CG is a key drug interdiction force, but really, the CG is the catch all?
4. Mishandling of Operation Fouled Anchor…the former CG commandant personally took responsibility for withholding that information regarding the scandal at the USCGA (he was nominated by Trump).
5. Excessive focus on DEI…that’s why she was removed, but nobody at the DOD has the balls to say it.

[Mark Walberg]

And now, he's taking over the arts to run Kennedy Center.
He wants to make sure that we don't appreciate the wrong things.
No more diversity in art. Straight conformity from now on !

Oh, and he is breaking science, too, taking back indirect costs on NIH grants.
Need to get rid of those free thinking professors.